4/7/09 Staten Island Box 4389 - 2nd Alarm

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Nov 27, 2007
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Prince's Bay, Staten Island, 4/7/09

Address: 23 Idaho Ave @ Bloomingdale Rd

22:50 hours
Phone Box 4389 - Report of a structural fire
Engs. 164, 151, 168
L84, TL76
Battalion 23


22:50 hours
"SI to Battalion 23, E168 is your 3rd due engine on multiple calls, sounds like you got work there"

22:51 hours
Received both 23 Idaho and 11 Idaho

10-75-4389 - 22:52 hours
E167
E284 w/ Satellite 3
TL87 is the FAST Truck
Battalion 42
Squad 252


22:52 hours
E162, L82 S/C

22:58 hours
Squad 1 available replacing Squad 252

2-2-4389 - 22:59 hours
Battalion 23: Transmit a 2nd alarm!  We've got fire through the roof on the 2nd floor of a Private Dwelling!
Engs 158, 157, 160
L80
Battalion 21 (Resource Unit Leader)
Battalion 43 (Safety Officer)
Battalions 40, Rescue, Safety
Rescue 5
Tactical Support 2
FieldCom
Division 8
RAC5


23:01 hours
L168 is relocating to L84

23:01 hours
E159 w/ Satellite 5 available replacing E284 w/ Satellite 3

23:04 hours
BC23: 23 Idaho Ave.  We have a 2 1/2 story 25x50, fire is through the roof.  We have 1 line stretched in operation, 2nd line being stretched, primary search is in progress, we believe this house to be empty.

Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - alley
3 - rear yard
4 - alley

23:07 hours
Battalion 40 re-directed to acting Battalion 21

23:08 hours
Battalion 33 is relocating to Battalion 22
Battalion 32 is relocating to Battalion 23

23:13 hours - Duration 26 minutes

23:15 hours
Battalion 33 re-directed to acting 23
Battalion 32 re-directed to acting 22
E279 is relocating to E167

23:16 hours
E240 is relocating to E164
E246 is relocating to E151

23:17 hours
L168 is 10-8 in L84's response area

23:20 hours
Battalion 33 is 10-8 in Battalion 23's response area

23:21 hours
DC8: Box 4389, we put the 21 Battalion to work as the 2nd Battalion Chief, special call a new Resource Unit Leader.
Battalion 33 acting 23 S/C as the Resource Unit Leader

23:21 hours
TL114 is re-directed to acting TL87

23:22 hours
Battalion 32 acting 22 re-directed to acting 23

23:24 hours - Duration 34 minutes
DC8: Progress report for 2nd Alarm Box 4389, 4 lines stretched in operation, all searches are complete and negative, fire is Doubtful.

23:31 hours - Duration 43 minutes
DC8: 2nd alarm 4389, Probably Will Hold.

23:32 hours
FieldCom is 10-8 back to Brooklyn

23:38 hours
DC8: 2nd Alarm Box 4389, we're releasing Rescue 5.  Also a 10-41 code 1 (Suspicious Fire in Occupied Structure), mixer-off message.

23:41 hours
Rescue Battalion is 10-8 back to Citywide

23:41 hours
E228 is 10-8 in E158's response area

23:51 hours
Squad 1 is 10-8 back to Brooklyn

23:52 hours - Duration 1 hour 5 minutes
DC8: 2nd Alarm Box 4389, fire is Under Control.  We're all releasing TAC2, L87, and the 42 Battalion

00:02 hours
RAC5 had responded to 7-5-1758, now S/C in
 
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   Good thing that Squad 1 was released from that first job. Simultaneous jobs on Staten Island had Squad 252 responding on a really long run. ::) ???
 

Bulldog

Bulldog
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Why wasn't a rescue started when the 10-75 was called as per normal procedures?  Was it because Rescue 5 was on the other 10-75 and any other rescue would've had such a long run?
 
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Rescue and Squad do not have to be assigned on a 10-75, only on All-Hands or greater.  Since Squad was assigned and the other box was Under Control the dispatchers probably figured it would be faster to wait for Rescue 5 to be up rather than assign Rescue 2.
 

mack

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Thanks rdm258.  This multiple shows how thin SI is when another job or jobs are taking place.  The 2nd alarm units for this South Shore multiple came from the other end of SI (Mariners Harbor, Port Richmond as well as Grasmere).  That's at least 10 minutes, maybe more, even without heavy traffic.  The 10-75 chief came from Brooklyn.  Note Division 8 put the resource unit leader chief to work as the all-hands chief a half hour after the 10-75 came in.  Shows you how long it takes to get to parts of SI from Brooklyn.  How long did it take Squad 252 to get to the South Shore of SI?  Even Squad 1 when they became available?  There should be more units in SI not less - another truck, another battalion, a squad.  Look at how much SI has grown in the past 10-20 years.  And only one new company - E168.  There should be more companies in NYC, not less.
 
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Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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mack said:
There should be more units in SI not less - another truck, another battalion, a squad.  Look at how much SI has grown in the past 10-20 years.  And only one new company - E168.
personally i think wat you mentioned is the very least there should be atleast 3-4 more engines and 2 more trucks and a squad and batt on SI i mean look how thin the coverage is already espeacaily around the middle of the island and the south shore.
 
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Mar 16, 2009
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What is also really scary is how few EMS resources there are on Staten Island as well - at least twice in the last week, there was NOT A SINGLE AMBULANCE AVAILABLE IN THE ENTIRE BOROUGH!!!  Can you imagine, god forbid, a cardiac arrest in the foodcourt of the Staten Island Mall at 4:30 in the afternoon, and the CLOSEST EMS unit has to come from Bay Ridge or Coney Island???
 

mack

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Messages
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When I moved to SI from Brooklyn many years back, the population was half what it is now and most homes and buildings were on the North Shore, along the SIRT and along the few main road systems.  Most firehouses were built in these neighborhoods.  Since then, the population has more than doubled, many more schools/homes/stores/vehicles/boats/a mall - and SI has only added E165/L85, E167/L87, E168.  R5 was there a long time ago, disbanded and reactivated.  Only 5 additional companies have been put in service, still no squad and no new battalion.  The workload of units has probably tripled in the past 40-50 years, especially with medical response requirements.  Traffic is much heavier and congested.  FDNY coverage was probably better in the 1950s than it is today.  That is no knock against SI units.  There are just not enough of them.  You do not have to be doing 4000 runs a year to be justified and to be vital to the neighborhoods you protect.  You just have to be there. 

SI needs more units in its center area.  Maybe a new firehouse along Willowbrook Rd (Emerson Hill), and/or near the SI mall area.  It also could use another truck to respond with L81 to work with E152, E160, and E159.  R5 is located there but they are not a truck and could be anywhere on the Island or in Brooklyn.  The South Shore is going to need another firehouse in the Charleston area.  Also, there is definately a need for another battalion chief.  The 23 battalion should be moved further south, maybe E164 or even E167.  A new battalion at E165 or E159 could respond better to the central locations. It takes the 42nd a long time to respond in from Brooklyn to most SI locations.

That's at least 3 new engines, 2 additional trucks, a squad, a new battalion and 3 new firehouses that SI could use right now.  Maybe SI would then be covered as well as it was 50 years ago.


Comparing SI to other departments covering similar populations or areas:
Cleveland    438,000    78 sq miles  24 Engines  13 Ladders  4 Rescues    26 Firehouses  6 Battalions
Kansas City  470,000    318 sq miles  34 Engines  12 Ladders  3 Rescues    34 Firehouses  7 Battalions  1 HazMat
Raleigh        401,000    114 sq miles  27 Engines  10 Ladders  3 Rescues    27 Firehouses  4 Battalions
Pittsburgh    334,500    55 sq miles    29 Engines  11 Ladders  2 Quints      29 Firehouses 4 Battalions
Cincinnati    333,000    79 sq miles  26 Engines  12 Ladders    2 Squads                        4 Battalions
SI              492,000    59 sq miles  18 Engines  11 Ladders  1 Rescue    19 Firehouses  3 Battalions
 
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Hey Mack, We call that being a consultant down south. Great job. Excellent in stating the case and making the point.
 
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Here's how we stack up here in Va. Beach:

20 Engines, 7 Ladders, 4 Battalions, 2 Rescues in 19 firehouses covering 300 sq miles (260 land 40 water) for about 450,00 people.

We had 2 studies done. The IAFF did one for us in 1996 that showed we were short 4 additional firehouses. Our fine southern City didn't like that the IAFF did the study so they hired an outside consultant to do the same thing. The outside consultant stated we were short 4 firehouses.

Everything mack said about SI is right on the money. I would also add a Battalion or 2 to Queens. Looking at their unit location chart the span of control for some of the Battalions is too high
 
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