5/4/10 Manhattan Box 314 - 3rd Alarm

[catry]

SoHo, Manhattan, NY, 5/4/10

Address: 37 Crosby St between Broome and Grand Sts

20:39 hours
Phone Box 314 - Report of fire in apartment 11
Engs. 55, 33, 7 (10-14)
L8
Battalion 1

20:39 hours
Second source received
TL9

20:40 hours
E24 available replacing E7

CIDS for 37 Crosby St:
6 story MD 50x40 class 3.  Party balcony in the rear.  No gooseneck to roof.  Building 37 has a 6 story 50x20 rear tenement.  Access to rear building via alley on exposure 1 side.  Sprinkler siamese to rear building from exposure 1 front building.

20:42 hours
Both Battalions 2 and 1 are 10-84, Battalion 1 will go 10-8 and remain in the area.

10-75-314 - 20:42 hours
Battalion 2: 10-75 Box 314, 6 story MD, top floor in the rear.
E7 re-assigned
T20 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 1 re-assigned
Squad 18
Rescue 1

7-5-314 - 20:47 hours - Duration 9 minutes
BC2: The address is 37 Crosby St.  Fire on the top floor blowing out 2 windows in the rear.
Division 3 S/C
RAC1

Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - alley
3 - unknown
4 - 7 story MD

20:48 hours
Division 3 is responding from quarters and will be significantly delayed.

20:49 hours
E6, T5 S/C

20:50 hours
RAC1 placed OOS, unable to contact.  RAC4 assigned

2-2-314 - 20:53 hours
BC2: 2nd Alarm on this Box, having a hard time getting water on this fire.
Engs. 15, 5, 10
E9 w/ Satellite 1
T6
Battalion 4 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 6 (Resource Unit Leader)
Safety, Rescue Battalions
Tactical Support 1
FieldCom, Command Tactical Unit

20:54 hours
At this point, the dispatcher and Division 3 engaged in a discussion over whether or not a 10-77 should be transmitted.  Division 3 settled the matter by asserting that "It's a 6 story class 3 building, that's no 10-77!"

21:00 hours
The staging area is Broadway and Grand St.

3-3-314 - 21:07 hours
DC3: It's a 7 story building, not a 6 story building.  Transmit a 3rd alarm!
Engs. 3 w/ High-Rise 1, 4, 16, 65
E259 w/ IMT Unit
E34 (CFRD Engine)
E14 (High-Rise Nozzle Co)
TL1, L11, TL12
Battalions 31, 35
Battalion 7 (Staging Manager)
Battalion 45 (IMT/Planning Sections Chief)
Battalion 58 (Air-Recon Chief)
Mask Service Unit

(*Note: as the building is now above 6 stories, a 10-77 was transmitted by dispatch policy)

21:07 hours
E262 available replacing E259

21:08 hours
DC3: We have fire on the 4, 5, 6, 7 floors, we have fire coming on the roof of the exposure 4 side.  We have 3 lines stretched, 2 lines in operation at the present time.  This is the front building.

21:09 hours
Car 4H (DAC Robery Maynes, Deputy Assistant Chief of Operations - Planning & Strategy) is 10-84

21:16 hours
Car 1E (Commissioner's Liaison) is responding

21:17 hours - Duration 39 minutes
DC3: Fire on floors 5 and 6 have been extinguished.  Still checking for pockets of extension.  Fire on exposure 4 on the roof have been extinguished.  Still working on floor 7.

21:19 hours
Car 12A (Executive Officer, Safety and Inspectional Services ) is responding
Car 17 is 10-84

21:22 hours
As per FDOC, Buildings Dept shows a violation order issued in April for 37 Crosby St - Building Foundation wall, north elevation, is bowing inward and showing signs of movement.

21:26 hours
Battalion 58 - Air Recon: We are airborne and have a 10 minute ETA, can you ascertain the command channel.
FieldCom: Command channel is channel 2 on the handy-talkie

21:27 hours
Car 23 (Executive Officer of Public Information) is responding

21:27 hours
FC: You can 10-2 the Air Recon and we'll have a progress report for you.

21:32 hours - Duration 55 minutes
FC: Progress report for the 10-77 3rd Alarm Box 314, the address 37 Crosby St, between Broome and Grand Sts, correction on the size-up: it's a 7 story 50x40.  Car 4 Henry, DAC Maynes, reports: we had fire on the 6th and 7th floors, main body fire has been knocked down.   Still extinguishing pockets of fire.  There is no fire in exposure 4.  We have 3 lines stretched, 2 in operation.  Fire remains Doubtful.  Searches are in progress.

21:35 hours - Duration 58 minutes
FC: Progress report for your 10-77 3rd Alarm Box 314, the address 37 Crosby St, between Broome and Grand Sts, 7 story MD 50x40.  Car 4 Henry, DAC Maynes, reports primary searches are underway, we're going to go Probably Will Hold.

21:37 hours
Battalion 45, E262/IMT Unit are 10-8 back to Queens.

21:38 hours
Battalions 35 and 31 are 10-8 back to Brooklyn.

21:45 hours
Tactical Support 1 is 10-8 back to Citywide

21:46 hours
Car 14C (Fire Marshal) is responding

21:47 hours
Rescue Battalion is 10-8 back to Citywide

21:52 hours
FC: Advise the gas and electric companies that both gas and electric have been shut down in the basement.

21:55 hours - Duration 1 hour 18 minutes
FC: Final progress report for your 10-77 3rd Alarm Box 314, the address 37 Crosby St, between Broome and Grand Sts, fire was in a 7 story MD 50x40.  At this time Car 4 Henry, DAC Maynes, reports all searches in exposure 4 are negative, primaries throughout the fire building are negative.  We're going to go Under Control, and can you have Buildings Dept. respond to check the integrity of the 2-3 corner of the basement.

22:38 hours
DC3: At the 3rd Alarm Box 314, we have 2 10-45 code 4s (Green Tag, Minor), treated by EMS and released, from the top floor rear apartment.

Relocations:
Engines: 74/3, 53/5, 202/6, 1/7, 292/14, 280/15, 216/55, 259/65
Ladders: 35/1, 154/3, 118/5, 119/9
Battalions: 48/1

 

[Bigandy]

"It's a six story class 3, that is not a 10-77!" Division 3 knows his stuff  ;D

 

[rdm258]

Another GREAT stop by the Brother's.

 

[bfdyoungin0252]

car 14c in charge now?

 

[FDNY150]

"It's a six story class 3, that is not a 10-77!" Division 3 knows his stuff  ;D

And we have been taught that any building over 5 stories or 75 feet is a 10-77. For every Division 3 who does know his/her stuff, there are tons of chiefs who don't. This is why over the past 6 years plus, FDNY Dispatchers have been tasked with not only telling them the duration, but telling them where the staging area is, (Nevermind we aren't there to see where a good one would be) but also now transmitting a 10-76 or 10-77 for any high rise building. IMHO, we have more important things to do than babysit, or hold the hands of chiefs who are pulling down 6 figures plus a year. I could go on. This is stuff that they, not, the dispatchers should be doing.

 

[LosBomberos2811]

"It's a six story class 3, that is not a 10-77!" Division 3 knows his stuff  ;D

And we have been taught that any building over 5 stories or 75 feet is a 10-77. For every Division 3 who does know his/her stuff, there are tons of chiefs who don't. This is why over the past 6 years plus, FDNY Dispatchers have been tasked with not only telling them the duration, but telling them where the staging area is, (Nevermind we aren't there to see where a good one would be) but also now transmitting a 10-76 or 10-77 for any high rise building. IMHO, we have more important things to do than babysit, or hold the hands of chiefs who are pulling down 6 figures plus a year. I could go on. This is stuff that they, not, the dispatchers should be doing.

5 Stories?  You sure?  I guess every OLT and NLT in the city are now high rise buildings.....Hey, if you think there are Chiefs who don't know anything.....feel free to go over to thier quarters and tell them that.  Call them out on...and let me know how that works out for you.  The Chief has more important things to do than worry about what block staging is on.....its not exacly an art form.  And like you state, you are not there and have no clue as to what's going on except for what you are told via the phone and radio.  Fire scenes are very dynamic, reports are just speculations until we start to get a handle on it....the Chief has to rely on reports from the 1st alarm companies, specifically the 1st due Engine and truck officer, the Roof and OV.  The radios we have are garbage, the buildings we operate in are garbage and we all have to make do with what we have and make the best of it.  The chief is the one who bears the burdon of command.   Time hacks have far more to do with "baby sitting" and "hand holding".....maybe you can enlighten us as to how that all came about and why?  Its not exactley somethign new, other citeies have been using it them for years.    The 6 figure comment......? really?  wtf dude?  Don't you think the guy work his azz off to get where he is?  They don't exactly hand out rank here.....you have to sacrifice a-lot to get to that level....and it starts with the Lt rank......I guess since we are throwing stones....I should say that all you do is answer a phone and push a few buttons.....?   Pretty stupid remark huh?          

 

[FDNY150]

Point taken. However, I stand by my feelings and statements. We've had a number of directives and advisories just shoved in our faces over the past few years, and we're just told to do it without being told why. This latest one was the 10-76/10-77 upon transmission of the next higher alarm if the building size meets the criteria. You're frustrated with crap equipment, I'm frustrated with what I see as unnecessary complications.

 

[raybrag]

Don't worry, guys.  Before long both of you will be out of a job if Bloomberg gets his way.  BTW:  have you heard the latest?  He's gonna outsource UCT to Bangladesh and close all engine companies . . . just issue every citizen a water pistol. ;D :

 

[rdm258]

Both of you have a valid point. Dispatchers and call takers have a very important task. I did dispatch for a small L.I. town prior to going into EMS and at times (Using Index Cards and writing down all the times, no computers at times,early 90's) would get hectic and this would not even compare to a FDNY operator. I can relate and understand a dispatcher's point of view. They are under appreciated and under paid. No one is right or wrong here. That's what makes this site GREAT that we can have our own opinions and views. All be safe.

 

[Bigandy]

I just assumed Division 3 was correct because he was so assertive. I don't know Dispatch SOP's and didn't plan on opening a 'can of worms' with my remark. We all know on here that the firefighters and alarm dispatchers both do a extraordinary job when faced with challenges. Fire-ground scenes are hectic and chaotic and both sides do there part in order to plan ahead to make the right decisions in the long run.

Andy

 

[rdm258]

Andy, that was great way of summing this up.

 

[Bigandy]

Hey thanks Rob!