is transit Haz-mat unnessary?

[mercurygrandmarquis1]

what exactly does nycta transit haz-mat do? i was reading the press release on the mta site and it just seems like an unnecessary duplication of services for a few reasons. I know there was a discussion about duplication of services a few months back with PD ESU and FD. but what about the PD and FD with transit. heres a few things that came to mind when i was thinking about this.
1. From what i have heard this truck sits in a lot in queens. if there was a haz-mat incident in Manhattan or the SI ferry or even on the LIRR or Metro North how long would it take them to get there? because they would have to contact members of the haz-mat then they would all have to meet up in queens and then drive to the scene. If they had several REP style trucks stationed at places around the city it would make more sense.
2. Doesn't the mta police have an ESU which is trained in Haz-mat?
3. what would happen if they got into an accident on the way? are they trained to drive a large emergency vehicle?
4. they said that there team is trained to deal with transit equipment/scenarios. aren't FDNY and ESU trained for that too?
anyone else have any input on the subject?

 

[Bulldog]

Of course they are unnecessary but like everything else the transit authority protects its own turf.  Better to lay off 50 FDNY fire fighters or 50 police officers than to have the transit authority lose Hazmat!  The only case where I can see if they might require give their own group to handle hazardous materials would be for a incident that was going to take a long time to remediate.  In that case I could see FDNY doing the initial emergency response and then handing over the long-term incident to the transit authority.  In this case the transit authority would not need emergency response vehicles they would only need support vehicles.  It would even get me started on the ESU/SOC issue!

 

[68jk09]

In reply # 1 above .....are you saying it would be okay to layoff FD & PD to subsidize a Transit Haz-Mat Unit ?

 

[MichaelS]

I think that was sarcasim.

 

[CFDMarshal]

I think that was definitely sarcasm! I have always wondered about the ESU duplication of FD activities? Definitely not used to having too much, mostly not enough!

 

[Bulldog]

I think that was sarcasim.

Very true!  Anyone who didn't realize that didn't read the rest of the post. 

 

[68jk09]

OK...now i am getting it........agreed.

 

[vbcapt]

For those who have been around awhile, when did PD start getting involved in providing FD services like vehicle extrication, HazMat etc.. Was there a particular event that started this or did they just want to "get involved"

 

[68jk09]

NYPD emergency services has been around for awhile but not as long as the FDNY Rescue s who originally trained the first ESU Units .....not sure of the dates .....but i think that occured in the 30 s...up into the 60 s ESU was pretty small .....in the 70 s they started to expand....in the 80 s a high ranking officer in NYPD with an ESU background started to beef up the Unit....he recruited guys right out of the Police Academy who were vollys where they lived....The PD wanted their guys out there ....when i was in The Rescue we were told by our higher ups ....dont get into confrontations  or you will answer for it...on the other hand ....PD was told do what ever you have to do to get the job & we will back you up......once they expanded & with this mindset some interagency problems certainly did ensue.....we worked well with some of them & others were  not so easy to get along with.....when Transit ESU first started we trained them in Air BAg use since we had had them before they did....we also had them before ESU but were not involved in their training......their original SCUBA units did not work around the clock but we did so they expanded theirs 24/7.......Transit & Housing ESU merged with the NYPD making their force much larger.....now with terrorism  both FD & PD have many added responsibilitys but street things like pin jobs still result in a "mother jugs & speed " approach (remember that movie)......i know there is a lot of duplication of services at a cost of $$$$.....but the Police Commissioner always has the Mayor in his pocket so they will remain where they are......FDNY was in the forefront of HAZ-Mat ops.....before the first HM was established the Rescues did it (more of a seat of the pants approach).....now more duplication & $$$ wasted........the Mayor really holds PD in a higher esteem than FD here in NYC...he is surrounded by six PD members day & night ...if his residence goes on fire during the night ...those assigned to him will wake him up & lead him to safety long before we receive the run so they are in his ear 24/7 we are something he views from a distance & probably considers just another budget drain...maybe someday their will be a NYC Mayor who is a Fire Buff then things will change.

 

[raybrag]

NYPD Emergency Service Division (ESD) was formed in 1930 as a Riot Control Unit, and evolved over time into the ESU that exists today (Res1cue, by the way, was formed in 1915 using a 1914 Cadillac modified by Da Shops). Of course, neither unit bore any resemblance whatsoever to today's ESU or SOC Rescue company.  There's some interesting information to be found at http://www.policeny.com/sitemap.html.  Scroll down to the "ESS, ESD, ESU" listing, and check out the various pages there.  Here's a photo of one of the early ESD units . . .

Bears a bit of a resemblance to a type of vehicle I seem to have seen before, but can't quite place  .


In the late 1940's, when there were just 4 FDNY Rescue companies (until R5 was organized in 1948), there were 20 ESD heavy trucks like this one:

They were spread around the city (SI even had one)

 

[nfd2004]

As far as HazMat goes, I can remember the very first HazMat being a Second piece to FDNY Rescue 4. Long before anybody else thought of HazMat. Of course it wasn't what it is today, but it was FDNY that first got into that business.
 And for extrication, besides the FDNY Rescues, later about 20-30 ladder companies throughout the city were given extrication equipment and training. I would watch them train over at The Rock. As I remember the late Lt Jim Curran (Rescue 1) taught many of those first ladder companies. As the program seemed to work, eventually all FDNY ladders were then trained.
 Just some back history I remember.

 

[vbcapt]

Thanks for the replies. Yes  68jk09, I remember Mother, Jugs & Speed. LOL !!

 

[CFDMarshal]

........the Mayor really holds PD in a higher esteem than FD here in NYC...he is surrounded by six PD members day & night ...if his residence goes on fire during the night ...those assigned to him will wake him up & lead him to safety long before we receive the run so they are in his ear 24/7 we are something he views from a distance & probably considers just another budget drain...maybe someday their will be a NYC Mayor who is a Fire Buff then things will change.

REMEMBER "Boss Tweed"