3/12/2014 10-60 5th Alarm Manhattan Box 1406

I havent been listening to the scanner all day due to going back to work but did anyone catch any more relief companies?
 
@1800 for relief

E-4,47,304,221
L-131,144 (SOC Support)
L-5(Fast)
B-7
R-4 w/ CR4
Sq-18
RB-1
Tac-2

@18:15 MCC1 Have R-4 bring CR4. You can 10-2 B7 & transmit 1 10-45 No Code
@18:20 Rescue Battalion 2 10-8 Rescue Battalion 1 is 10-84
@18:23 MCC1 that 10-45 is now a Code 1

Relications:
Rescue 6 Act. Rescue 4
 
Interesting that they also activated a 2nd rescue Battalion (Rescue Battalion 2).
 
Interesting paragraph in this story ....QUOTE Con Ed CEO John McAvoy said the call had been correctly categorized as low priority. "A single person calling that they smelled gas outside of a building is not something that would warrant a fire department response," he said.UNQUOTE.......How about if a Fire Alarm Box was used (provided it was working not like so many in NYC nowadays) ? the FDNY would have responded !...    http://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-nyc-gas-explosion-climbs-8-233907570.html
 
68jk09 said:
Interesting paragraph in this story ....QUOTE Con Ed CEO John McAvoy said the call had been correctly categorized as low priority. "A single person calling that they smelled gas outside of a building is not something that would warrant a fire department response," he said.UNQUOTE.......How about if a Fire Alarm Box was used (provided it was working not like so many in NYC nowadays) ? the FDNY would have responded !...    http://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-nyc-gas-explosion-climbs-8-233907570.html
Click to expand...
You're right Chief, it would have worked though at that advanced stage in the leak more than likely would have resulted in serious injury or worse to the the firefighters on the location when the explosion occurred. The real tragedy of it all is the number of people who have claimed to have smelled the strong odor of gas on Tuesday night and did not call the 7 digit Con Ed number or the 3 digit 911 number. Maybe it would have been less work to pull the fire alarm box had it been there. As per what Mr. McAvoy said, there is a directive from the PSC since the last incident in Floral Park that states what should get Fire Dept resonse and a single call from a location does not get it. A municipality in Westchester county ordered Con Ed to notify their Fire Dept of every leak call received by Con Ed in the muni so their fire dept could respond. That was abandoned after a few months by the muni due to the volume of calls. Con Ed receives the highest number of leak complaints in the country than any other utility. Approximately 50% of the leak complaints result in no leak found. Westchester receives the most leaks of the 4 gas divisions in the Con Ed service territory. NYS PSC allows a 60 minute response time though 75% have to be under 30 minutes. We do not have lights and sirens. We obey all traffic regulations when responding and are not staged at locations waiting for leaks to come in.
 
3/14/14
@06:08 Units for relief

E-84,21,82,229
L-25,117 (SOC Support)
L-43 (Fast)

Car-4 10-84 @06:10

**Note Tac 2 is using a bread truck styled FDNY rig (like Haz-Tac Companies 2nd piece)
 
fdce54 ...agreed it could have made it worse but on the other hand maybe an earlier alarm might have allowed mitigation or at least saving some lives...we will never know.
 
68jk09 said:
fdce54 ...agreed it could have made it worse but on the other hand maybe an earlier alarm might have allowed mitigation or at least saving some lives...we will never know.
Click to expand...
Agreed Chief, if someone had picked up the phone the night before, none of this would have happened.
 
mack said:
68jk09 said:
Interesting paragraph in this story ....QUOTE Con Ed CEO John McAvoy said the call had been correctly categorized as low priority. "A single person calling that they smelled gas outside of a building is not something that would warrant a fire department response," he said.UNQUOTE.......How about if a Fire Alarm Box was used (provided it was working not like so many in NYC nowadays) ? the FDNY would have responded !...    http://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-nyc-gas-explosion-climbs-8-233907570.html
Click to expand...

Also - 8 people dead - is it still a good policy for no fire department response to single calls for odor of gas vicinity of occupied buildings?
Click to expand...
Mack, that sounds fine and dandy but we are talking upwards of 50,000 leak complaints and from personal experience, the fire depts. don't want any part of it. The commissioners and chiefs may say yes but when it filters down to the field units, they just want us to show up so they can leave. An FDNY chief said to me on a job, if it ain't on fire, we don't know what the hell we are doing. At least with a private home they can take the occupants outside but in a large apt bldg. say 60-80 apts, that will be a tough go. As I stated in an earlier post, a muni wanted their FD to respond to all leaks in the muni but that was quickly abandoned. But when this all settles, the powers that be, the NTSB, Federal DOT and the PSC will mandate a new response policy.
 
For those sitting on the sideline who don't know, "fdce54" is a Con Ed supervisor in the Gas Division with 40 years experience. He has worked in both NYC and Westchester County.

I'm sure there will be lessons learned through this unfortunate event. Lessons that EVERY City or Town can learn from. Some interesting points mentioned. What if the fire alarm box was still there and it was pulled for this gas leak. Or the call was made earlier. Maybe this wouldn't have had to happen. How should the priority of gas leak assignments be set ? Should the fire department respond to one and not the other ?

Although not a gas leak, I am reminded of a propane leak from a tank in Buffalo, NY sometime in the 80s. The fire department showed up and there was an explosion. I believe Six Firefighters were killed in that incident.

We have witnessed just what can happen in a "Routine Gas Leak". Just by the grace of God, no Con Ed workers or FDNY members were killed on March 12, 2014.

 
nfd2004 said:
We have witnessed just what can happen in a "Routine Gas Leak". Just by the grace of God, no Con Ed workers or FDNY members were killed on March 12, 2014.
Click to expand...
While it certainly fortunate that no members or FDNY or Con Ed were killed or injured, 8 or more civilians lost their lives and many others were injured.  This was a very preventable incident if only citizens acted when I suspected something was not right.  Whether they are scared to report a problem or just so noncommittal they don't worry about it if they aren't immediately affecting them doesn't matter, they need to learn to call immediately when they suspect the problem.  Also, Con Ed as well as other natural gas utilities need to become much more proactive in reducing the chances for leaks of any type.  Being reactive like most of them are today is a bad policy as demonstrated in this case and many others.
 
fdce54 said:
68jk09 said:
Interesting paragraph in this story ....QUOTE Con Ed CEO John McAvoy said the call had been correctly categorized as low priority. "A single person calling that they smelled gas outside of a building is not something that would warrant a fire department response," he said.UNQUOTE.......How about if a Fire Alarm Box was used (provided it was working not like so many in NYC nowadays) ? the FDNY would have responded !...    http://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-nyc-gas-explosion-climbs-8-233907570.html
Click to expand...
You're right Chief, it would have worked though at that advanced stage in the leak more than likely would have resulted in serious injury or worse to the the firefighters on the location when the explosion occurred. The real tragedy of it all is the number of people who have claimed to have smelled the strong odor of gas on Tuesday night and did not call the 7 digit Con Ed number or the 3 digit 911 number. Maybe it would have been less work to pull the fire alarm box had it been there. As per what Mr. McAvoy said, there is a directive from the PSC since the last incident in Floral Park that states what should get Fire Dept resonse and a single call from a location does not get it. A municipality in Westchester county ordered Con Ed to notify their Fire Dept of every leak call received by Con Ed in the muni so their fire dept could respond. That was abandoned after a few months by the muni due to the volume of calls. Con Ed receives the highest number of leak complaints in the country than any other utility. Approximately 50% of the leak complaints result in no leak found. Westchester receives the most leaks of the 4 gas divisions in the Con Ed service territory. NYS PSC allows a 60 minute response time though 75% have to be under 30 minutes. We do not have lights and sirens. We obey all traffic regulations when responding and are not staged at locations waiting for leaks to come in.
Click to expand...

Fdce54, What municipality in Westchester has the most gas leaks? I believe it's us?

I also always believed the ConEd Emergency Response should have Red lights and sirens to respond on the emergencies, to get there quicker.
I get to work with your guys routinely, and they are always good.
 
R1SmokeEater said:
fdce54 said:
68jk09 said:
Interesting paragraph in this story ....QUOTE Con Ed CEO John McAvoy said the call had been correctly categorized as low priority. "A single person calling that they smelled gas outside of a building is not something that would warrant a fire department response," he said.UNQUOTE.......How about if a Fire Alarm Box was used (provided it was working not like so many in NYC nowadays) ? the FDNY would have responded !...    http://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-nyc-gas-explosion-climbs-8-233907570.html
Click to expand...
You're right Chief, it would have worked though at that advanced stage in the leak more than likely would have resulted in serious injury or worse to the the firefighters on the location when the explosion occurred. The real tragedy of it all is the number of people who have claimed to have smelled the strong odor of gas on Tuesday night and did not call the 7 digit Con Ed number or the 3 digit 911 number. Maybe it would have been less work to pull the fire alarm box had it been there. As per what Mr. McAvoy said, there is a directive from the PSC since the last incident in Floral Park that states what should get Fire Dept resonse and a single call from a location does not get it. A municipality in Westchester county ordered Con Ed to notify their Fire Dept of every leak call received by Con Ed in the muni so their fire dept could respond. That was abandoned after a few months by the muni due to the volume of calls. Con Ed receives the highest number of leak complaints in the country than any other utility. Approximately 50% of the leak complaints result in no leak found. Westchester receives the most leaks of the 4 gas divisions in the Con Ed service territory. NYS PSC allows a 60 minute response time though 75% have to be under 30 minutes. We do not have lights and sirens. We obey all traffic regulations when responding and are not staged at locations waiting for leaks to come in.
Click to expand...

Fdce54, What municipality in Westchester has the most gas leaks? I believe it's us?

I also always believed the ConEd Emergency Response should have Red lights and sirens to respond on the emergencies, to get there quicker.
I get to work with your guys routinely, and they are always good.
Click to expand...
Yes it is Yonkers closely followed by Mt Vernon, New Rochelle although Scarsdale and Eastchester have been way up there this winter. The constant warm to cold weather transitioning has been beating the hell out of mains and services no matter what the material. Although that wasn't the case in this incident. As for lights and sirens, NYC and Westchester do not want us, a private company having them. I agree with that. With all the driving our guys do in Westchester, we only had one vehicle accident in 2013. That would be much higher with lights and sirens.
 
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