7/22/2009 Federal Judge in Brooklyn Rules against FDNY Written Exams

[efd274]

FDNY written exams excluded hundreds of black and Hispanic firefighters, federal judge rules
BY John Marzulli
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Updated Wednesday, July 22nd 2009, 5:06 PM



A  federal judge ruled  Wednesday that the city used written exams that "unfairly excluded hundreds of qualified people of color" from serving as firefighters.

The historic decision could recast the racial makeup of the predominantly white New York City Fire Department.

Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis ruled that the Justice Department and the Vulcan Society, an organization of black firefighters, have proved the city discriminated against blacks and Hispanics on two  exams administered from 1999 to 2007.

"These unlawful practices barred over a thousand additional black and Hispanic applicants from consideration for appointment as FDNY firefighters, and unfairly delayed the appointment of hundreds of black and Hispanic firefighters," Garaufis wrote in a 93-page decision.

"These examinations ... closed the doors of opportunity for public service to large segments of the city's population," he added.

When the feds filed suit against the city in 2007, there were just 303 black firefighters and 605 Hispancs in a force of 8,998, according to court papers.

The two exams which discriminated against minorities are no longer used by the FDNY.

"It's a huge victory," said lawyer Dana Lossia who represents the Vulcan Society. "The next step will be figuring out the remedy."

The plaintiffs are seeking the hiring and back pay for hundreds of prospective firefighters, a move that could cost the city an estimated $20 million, as well as retroactive seniority for the minorities.

Any settlement would also likely include some form of  federal oversight of the FDNY's hiring process.

Black and Hispanic applicants failed the two exams in disproportionate numbers to whites and those who passed were placed lower on the hiring list due to their scores.

The city can appeal the judge's decision, but there was no immediate comment from the Law Department.




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/22/2009-07-22_nyfd_written_exams_excluded_hundreds_of_black_and_hispanic_firefighters_federal_.html#ixzz0M1t6T4QH

 

[69 METS]

Is the judge implying that the tests in question included special "White Only" questions that non-whites would be unable to answer?

 

[bklyndisp54]

I haven't read the decision, but based upon the published news reports it sounds like the judge completely ignored the point of the SCOTUS decision in the Hartford FD matter...that a racially imbalanced result does not, in and of itself, indicate a biased exam.    ???

 

[efd274]

Not having read the decision nor claiming to be a lawyer I would think this would at least go the next step - Federal Court of Appeals - which would have to be influenced by the recent Supreme Court decision assuming the specific claims are similar. 

 

[FDNYE54]

I dont think that the judge is taking into account the fact that you have to get a perfect score before the dept. even looks at you

 

[georged4997]

in 1975 i took the entrance exam for bridgeport conn. i didn't get on till 1977. when a federal judge ruled the test unfair to blacks and hispanics.
the remedy, ban the grades and give them back pay. well, after some of them got there back pay they quit. from then on every test is banned.
even promotional. I'm glad I'm retired now. i feel sorry for the new guys
coming on the job or the others going for promotions. maybe there should be a test where you count bananas or cockroaches. it has to stop somewhere. for the judges, most are probably paid off. its just reverse
discrimination at its best.

 

[shaneperron]

From what I understand, the test was racially bias because the test was printed on white paper. HaHaHa. Sorry guys I had to do it

 

[efd274]

NY Post 7/24/09

Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis on Wednesday declared an outdated FDNY firefighter exam racially biased, exposing the department to millions of dollars in damages and possible court oversight of its hiring practices.

It's a foolish ruling.

True, the department historically has been overwhelmingly white. But that's a disparity it's been correcting through targeted recruitment.

Nor did Garaufis find actual bias on the part of the FDNY or its test.

Instead, by the doctrine of "disparate impact," he found that the relatively low number of minority candidates passing the test in itself was practically enough to justify intervention.

This is nonsense. The test asked perfectly fair questions about firefighting.

"Disparate" results don't amount to racial bias -- or warrant "reform."

And, again, the department had already moved to improve its racial representation through recruitment.

Plus, it had already adopted a new test.

Notably, blacks and Latinos make up one-third of the newest class of firefighters, compared to 10 percent of the force.

That's a welcome sign.

At the same time, though, the new test was made easier, raising fears about FDNY standards.

Clearly, court meddling isn't going to help keep New Yorkers safe in the event of fires.

 

[vbcapt]

I don't get it at all. I took the FDNY written test around 1990? I did not find one thing unfair, complicated, or wrong with it. Study, study, study;pretty simple. With all this nonsense every test is going to be thrown out or scrutinized.

 

[catry]

You just know if they really are forced to pay $20 mill, the guys at the top are going to use it as an excuse to close houses.  Nothing like a BS reason to reduce public safety!

 

[johnd248]

Perhaps Justice Garaufis has aspirations of riding Justic Sotomayor's coattails to the Supreme Court. ??? :-[

 

[squarewheels]

i took the fdny and nypd written tests. i actually did better on the fd test.  i havent eard any gripes about nypd written being a racist test. it was basically the same SAT style can you read/write test.
the reason is that the pd is way more diverse but there minimum score is alot lower to get on. you can easily score an 85 on pd and quickly get hired. fdny you need at least a 93 wait 2-3 years and then make it into the academy. pd gets what 10,000 test takers while the fd is like 20,000.  also the pd is always giving a test and always hiring more cops or at least they were 2 years ago b4 the economic downturn. have these issues been looked at prob not.  hire everyone that says i want to put out fires and this jopb will go down the shitter just like the nypd has. GOD help the FDNY

 

[68jk09]

Over a year later & the FDNY is still stymied in attempts to use the FF hiring list due to the lawsuit......currently down 300 + & a new test would take up to 2 years to put together ......costing a tremendous amount of money in overtime to fill the gaps.....there is now a statement  just made by the bean counters that if this OT rather than new hiring results in cost of 20 mil  over the 2 yr period (much cheaper for the city to hire a Proby then pay OT to a top pay FF )......then Company closings may be back on the table (after just clearing that hurdle in the just approved budget).....all a result of liberals cowtowing to a select few complainers .....if the current list is thrown out ( a possible option)....then many well qualified Men will be too old to take the next exam.....included in the group are many Military Veterans with more than one Combat tour under their belt.......the most qualified & deserving are getting screwed.......way to go vulcans....Judge Gadoofus will give his ruling on Oct. 1 2010.............Hope the Merit System is honored & Best Of Luck to the most qualified who are in limbo.

 

[Amoscatiello]

Makes me sick to my stomach. Everybody took the same test, black, white, purple to striped. The highest scoreing percentile naturally would be looked at for appointment first, no? If they happined to be majority of whites, so be it, but the point is EVERYBODY got the SAME test with the SAME resources to study. Classes are offered, books are sold. Take adavantage of the tools on the table. People expect this job to be handed to them, and its a dam shame. God bless all those waiting to get on, in particular those who quit there jobs for an August proby class, that didnt go in. Best of luck to all of you.

 

[Bulldog]

Makes me sick to my stomach. Everybody took the same test, black, white, purple to striped. The highest scoreing percentile naturally would be looked at for appointment first, no? If they happined to be majority of whites, so be it, but the point is EVERYBODY got the SAME test with the SAME resources to study. Classes are offered, books are sold. Take adavantage of the tools on the table. People expect this job to be handed to them, and its a dam shame. God bless all those waiting to get on, in particular those who quit there jobs for an August proby class, that didnt go in. Best of luck to all of you.

That is the way most of us see it.  However minorities don't want to compete on a level playing field.  They think everything should be handed to them.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

I went through the same Bu@#Sh*% in Boston. Did 2 tours in Nam got a PH and took the test. I used all the tools and learning tips that were available TO ALL! Because I was a wounded vet I was supposed to go to the top of a list after I took the same test and passed it along with everyone else. But some liberal ass%$le ruled the test was unfair to minorities and the results were thrown out. A new quota system was put in place, they had to hire guys who did not know the difference between a hose line and a line of hose.. Now my son is in  the same bul%&it inChicago. I do not care the color, gender, or sexal preference of someone who is climbing up an aerial to save my sorry butt, just be QUALIFIED.  ??? :'( :-[ ???

 

[Amoscatiello]

Sorry to hear that about your son. I think everyone on this forum agrees with me though when I say, the minority card has to STOP being pulled, because in reality whites are the minority now in the United States.