7/25/2010 Bronx 4th Alarm Box 4795

M

MichaelS

Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
421
2323 Grand Concourse Box 4795


@ 0143hrs - AHW on arrival for a fire in a church from BC19, extra engine & truck.

@ 0144hrs - 2nd alarm, heavy fire

@ 0147hrs - Urgent transmission by BC19 to report fire extending to a hotel on 2 floors

@ 0149hrs - Urgent 3rd alarm by BC19, special call 2 additional tower ladders, 1 to the rear & 1 to the front

@ 0205hrs - Division 7 reports fire in a 4 story church extended to a 5 story 50x90 multiple dwelling acting as a hotel

Division 7 reports 2 T/Ls operating, 3rd set up, 3 lines stretched & operating in exposure 4.

@ 0248hrs - Division 7 special calls additional 2 trucks & 1 engine, all visible fire is knocked down.

@ 0254hrs - Fieldcom just became available from the Queens 2nd Alarm & is responding to the Bronx 3rd

@ 0259hrs - Car 10 reports Probaby Will Hold, transmit 4th alarm for relief purposes, 10-2 all special units & the fieldcom.

BC39 air recon chief over the fire at this time (0246hrs).
 
Looks like 75/33 and 48/56 in there about the same time. I just walked in the door as they were transmitting the second, so I really didn't have a good listen.
 
I don't know who was available at the the time but here is what the assignemnt should be:

75 48 42   33 56  BN 19

on 10-75

E88 L38FAST BN27  R3  S61

On 2d Alarm

79 46 43   37

There's a tenth of a mile difference between 75/33 and 48/56 so it is close getting in there. E42 and 88/38 the same distance but 42 has a straight run up the Concourse.

In the old days, before there was a L56 or L59 and E's 42, 43, and 48 were single engines, L's 27, 38 or 37 covered the Concourse 2d due between Burnside Ave and Fordham Rd. This was a L38 box on the first alarm.

 
Here is rundown of the units
1st alarm at 1:37
E-75,48,42,43        Bn19
L-33,56  59fast  R-3 Sq61 Bn27 D-7

Add'l E & T
E-79  L-37

2nd alarm 1:45
E-46,88,81
L-38       Bn17R  Bn18S E-72 Sat2  TS02

3rd alarm 1:50
E-95,92,45,93
L-27,46  Bn13  Bn26

2 add'l TL's 1 E above 3rd at 2:48
TL-58,44   E-90

4th alarm 3:01 relief
E-50,62,82
L-45acting46  L-49

4:04 add'l E & TL
E-22   TL-54
TL-117 at 4:17

Thats the rundown of all units
 
Mac's rundown makes my point. The alarm assignment system seems flawed.

For example:

E79 is a quarter mile closer than E43, and has a straight run down the Concourse, yet 43 comes in before them.

E46/L27 are third/second due at Burnside and the Concourse, yet 43/59 are assigned in before them here.

Not to mention that 88/38 is a full half mile closer than any of them, but now they come in 6th and 5th due, respectively.

I could go on.

Perhaps some were out elsewhere when the box came in, or is there a pattern that west Bronx companies (BN19) are assigned out of the logical order?
 
3511 said:
Mac's rundown makes my point. The alarm assignment system seems flawed.

For example:

E79 is a quarter mile closer than E43, and has a straight run down the Concourse, yet 43 comes in before them.

E46/L27 are third/second due at Burnside and the Concourse, yet 43/59 are assigned in before them here.

Not to mention that 88/38 is a full half mile closer than any of them, but now they come in 6th and 5th due, respectively.

I could go on.

Perhaps some were out elsewhere when the box came in, or is there a pattern that west Bronx companies (BN19) are assigned out of the logical order?
Click to expand...
Just my two cents but wondering if having to come up steep hills coming from the east has anything to do with it. I'm talking in the case of 88/38 and 46/27 but then again 48/56 have to come up winding E 184 St to get there.
 
As you all know this area has had some changes to assignments due to companies being formed and also moving. L-56 formed and moved from E42 to 48 thus changing L-38 responses, L-59 coming to the area in the late 70's and 75 and 33 getting moved a few blocks into new quarters. So L27 38 have been affected by these trucks moving into the area. I dont think the updated alarm assignments have been put into place yet either, it was put on hold due to many units having issues with changes
 
Other than E42, 75/33, and 79/37, everyone in the Borough has to climb a hill to get to the Grand Concourse. But we ain't running with horses anymore, are we? 43 and 81 's climb is just as steep, maybe steeper, as 46, 48 and 88. So in the end, it should be, who is closer?

Mac is correct, there are many more truck companies in the area now. In fact, there is no area in the City that has an almost 1:1 ratio of engines to trucks as the Bronx. That accounts for some changes in assignments.

And some companies have moved. Just a few blocks can make a difference.

E's 43, 79, 81 and 88, however, have not moved, and neither has the street map moved much since 1960.  BUT!... we have E75, who moved further south, responding to more boxes in Bedford Park, 81 to to more in Norwood, and 43 to more on the Concourse, when other companies are closer.

A pattern?
 
3511 said:
A pattern?
Click to expand...

Well, I'll elude to it again, it may have something to do with a certain someone buffing in a certain place in question back in the day.  That's all it is, b/c the men who work those areas know the response matrix as is stands now does not make any sence when it come to certain boxes. 
 
Bomberos,

I respect the opinions in your postings to this forum.

It is not my intent in raising this issue to seek a personal vendetta against anyone. If the individual of whom you "elude" to is who I think it is, I disagree. He has flatly denied any input to corrupt the FDNY response system. I know the man, he is upstanding, and I take him at his word.

My focus in on a system that appears to be flawed.

I guess in the grand scheme of things in this world, who responds whatever due to alarm boxes in the Borough of the Bronx is not that important. But maybe not.

Maybe the citizens of NYC, the TAXPAYERS, are entitled to the most efficient system that will save their lives.

Maybe, in this time of financial trouble, units could be closed based upon their workload. Both the citizens and the FDNY would be shortchanged if units were closed because of an inefficient (or biased) system that determines that workload.

If minutes really do count in units arriving to a fire, then this issue has some importance.

Perhaps some of the other participants of this forum can contribute examples of where, in other neighborhoods, and how, the response system is flawed.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top