Apparatus Cost

efd274 · Jun 11, 2009

Does anyone have costs and bid data for recent years for the various equipment that FDNY has purchased in recent years or can refer me to a site? Since the purchases are publicly bid they should be available somewhere.

I would be interested in name of successful bidder as well an any other bidders along with costs per unit for the following:

Engine 1000gpm
Engine 2000gpm
RM Ladder
Tower Ladder (75)
Tillers
Suburbans
Rescues

I realize there are different size Engine boosters (500 vs 750gpm etc). If that info is available that would be good as well.

That should pretty much cover most of the major equipment. It would be nice to have this in a spreadsheet and see what the cost trends are and how many bidders there are etc. If not available in a spreadsheet I would be willing to put one together for those who would be interested.

Bulldog · Jun 11, 2009

Here's a link to a site where you can look up any item bid by NYC: New York Bids. It takes a little bit of playing to figure out but once you do you can find anything they bought. I used it on long time ago to find out who was the successful bidder for the new fire boats!

efd274 · Jun 11, 2009

Thanks Bulldog

efd274 · Jun 15, 2009

Unfortunately I was not able to get any FDNY apparatus info from this site. I also agree it is pretty cumbersome to use - definitely not user friendly. Anyone else have any info - thanks

johnd248 · Jun 15, 2009

I was at a meeting at the FDNY Shops recently and they were discussing the new Seagrave 2000 gpm pumpers. I believe the cost they said was in the area of $558,000. per pumper and that is for an order to 73. If the Podunk VFD orders just one, I am sure the cost is significantly higher.

efd274 · Jun 15, 2009

I figured they were at least 500K a piece - thanks.

firebuffkevin · Jun 15, 2009

It would be great if we could get the cost of the three types of ladders. We know the rescues are going to be very pricey.

Bulldog · Jun 16, 2009

johnd248 said:
I was at a meeting at the FDNY Shops recently and they were discussing the new Seagrave 2000 gpm pumpers. I believe the cost they said was in the area of $558,000. per pumper and that is for an order to 73. If the Podunk VFD orders just one, I am sure the cost is significantly higher.

Probably not. One of the big items in the bidding process for new trucks for FDNY the of the warranty side of maintenance. They require multiple years of complete coverage on each truck and because of the of the use of trucks receive this can be a significant amount of the cost. One reason that many manufacturers will not bid. If the Podunk VFD buys a truck their requirements for warranty maintenance are going to be significantly lower and thus lower the price of the apparatus!

firebuffkevin · Aug 4, 2009

efd274 said:
Does anyone have costs and bid data for recent years for the various equipment that FDNY has purchased in recent years or can refer me to a site? Since the purchases are publicly bid they should be available somewhere.

I would be interested in name of successful bidder as well an any other bidders along with costs per unit for the following:

Engine 1000gpm
Engine 2000gpm
RM Ladder
Tower Ladder (75)
Tillers
Suburbans
Rescues

I realize there are different size Engine boosters (500 vs 750gpm etc). If that info is available that would be good as well.

That should pretty much cover most of the major equipment. It would be nice to have this in a spreadsheet and see what the cost trends are and how many bidders there are etc. If not available in a spreadsheet I would be willing to put one together for those who would be interested.

Installment #1: Rescues

I was able to find the cost of the most recently purchased Rescue. The contract was awarded to Pierce and in 2005 for $738,984. This is probably the rig for R1.

firebuffkevin · Aug 5, 2009

Installment #2 The Cost of Ladders

RM Ariel 2008-2009 $750,000 ***
Tillers 2008-2009 $900,000 ***
75? Towers 2007 $1,200,000

It is very difficult to get exact information on the actual cost.

** The numbers for the ariels and tillers are estimated based on information that I have read.

For example: Larry Shapiro in his book ?Hook and Ladders? published in 2002 stated that an ariel cost $519,000 and a tiller cost $645,000. Tillers cost 25% more than ariels at that time.

The web page of Ten House states that the new rig for L10 cost around $550,000 about a year later than Spapiro?s data.
Apparatus consultants that I have read , state that apparatus costs have risen about 6% per annum in this decade. That is right on target from his 519K and L10?s 550K. (The difference is not the cost of the murals. The mural costs were donated by the Seagrave labor force in memory of the ?343? RIP.) Using my ?rounding and guesstimate methodology,? and the consultant's data, I arrived at the figures above.

The information for the tower ladders comes from NYC procurement information for the tower ladder bid award, and assumes the original purchase of 11 units.

I hope this information is helpful. See efd274 someone has been working on your request, although it's not in spreadsheet format!!!

efd274 · Aug 5, 2009

Thank you bro - continue the good work!

firebuffkevin · Aug 6, 2009

INSTALLMENT # 3 Pumpers

Pumpers 2000GPM about $553,000

Information based on for a bid award to Seagrave for 70 units, plus one high pressure unit. The cost of the single high pressure rig cost somewhat more, probably closer to 600K.

grumpy grizzly · Aug 7, 2009

I live in Cicero. Illinois a city just to the west of Chicago. We are awaiting delivery of a 100' tiller and the cost is around a million bucks. It is going to be a E-One. And yes this is the town Al Capone called home

firebuffkevin · Aug 17, 2009

INSTALLMENT #4 SPECIAL OPERATIONS VEHICLES

Collapse Rescues (3 and 5) $755,260 each

Mobile Command Vehicle LDV $292,070 4/06

firebuffkevin · Aug 17, 2009

INSTALLMENT #5 EMS VEHICLES

Ambulances $133,000 10/21/03

MERV $532,832 Most recent vehicle

firebuffkevin · Aug 20, 2009

INSTALLMENT # 6 FIREBOATS

"343" and FFII $26,000,000 each

Marine 1 Safeboat $158,725

efd274 · Sep 4, 2009

From Code 3 Collectibles Sept 2009:

The apparatus assigned to Engine Company 31 prior to disbanding, was a 1962 Mack model C95F pumper with a 1000 gpm Waterous pump and a gasoline powered Mack Thermodyne engine. It was delivered to the FDNY on November 14, 1962 and placed in service originally as Engine Company 17 on January 16, 1963. The cost of this pumper was $20,949 and was one of 10 identical Mack pumpers delivered that year.

Say 20K for easy math vs 560K for a Seagrave unit today in large quantities - realizing there are differences in pump size and booster tank etc. So that's an increase of about 23fold. A 62 Chevy Impala went for about $2500 - similar car today about 25-30K - on the order of tenfold - interesting!!

nfd2004 · Sep 4, 2009

efd274 said:
Say 20K for easy math vs 560K for a Seagrave unit today in large quantities - realizing there are differences in pump size and booster tank etc. So that's an increase of about 23fold. A 62 Chevy Impala went for about $2500 - similar car today about 25-30K - on the order of tenfold - interesting!!

Interesting point and very well presented.

efd274 · Sep 4, 2009

Thanks nfd2004

raybrag · Sep 4, 2009

Diesel emissions rules, safety standards and equipment, vehicle size, automatic transmissions, and other factors make up some of the reasons for the disparity, don't you think?