Certifications for members

[F117AN]

I apologize in advance if this is the incorrect place to put this question, but it seemed to be the most closely related area for it.

Regarding the medical certifications for Fire-side members, I can understand the Engine and Squad members are CFR-D (not too sure about the Trucks, but they’ll definitely have if the brass makes them go to CFR runs too), but are the Rescue members (HazMat too) CFR-D or are they trained to EMT-B due to their being part of the 800lb gorilla we know as SOC?

My logic could very well be off, and it may turn out to be that Rescue Medics are given the ticket, but I’ve been wondering if Rescue and HazMat have higher certs just because they can find themselves in more complicated situations than the line companies. I think it was Brian Sweeney of Rescue 1, may he rest easy, who said that they take major trauma runs, but again I don’t know if regular line companies go to major trauma runs if they’re only CFR-D.

Additionally, if any member fire-side in line company has a cert higher than CFR-D, such as EMT-B or AEMT, from being previous EMS, are they allowed to practice to that level if the cert is still active? Or are they forbidden from practicing higher than CFR-D due to equipment and the potential need for the officer of the rig for that tour to also have the cert?

I recognize that I sound clueless, but everything works so much differently up here in Canada.

Thanks for taking time from your day to read and potentially reply to this.

Have a good day or night, wherever you may be.

 

[NikFDNY]

I apologize in advance if this is the incorrect place to put this question, but it seemed to be the most closely related area for it.

Regarding the medical certifications for Fire-side members, I can understand the Engine and Squad members are CFR-D (not too sure about the Trucks, but they’ll definitely have if the brass makes them go to CFR runs too), but are the Rescue members (HazMat too) CFR-D or are they trained to EMT-B due to their being part of the 800lb gorilla we know as SOC?

My logic could very well be off, and it may turn out to be that Rescue Medics are given the ticket, but I’ve been wondering if Rescue and HazMat have higher certs just because they can find themselves in more complicated situations than the line companies. I think it was Brian Sweeney of Rescue 1, may he rest easy, who said that they take major trauma runs, but again I don’t know if regular line companies go to major trauma runs if they’re only CFR-D.

Additionally, if any member fire-side in line company has a cert higher than CFR-D, such as EMT-B or AEMT, from being previous EMS, are they allowed to practice to that level if the cert is still active? Or are they forbidden from practicing higher than CFR-D due to equipment and the potential need for the officer of the rig for that tour to also have the cert?

I recognize that I sound clueless, but everything works so much differently up here in Canada.

Thanks for taking time from your day to read and potentially reply to this.

Have a good day or night, wherever you may be.

You aren't clueless, just NYC's Medical System is a bit of a mess.

First, just some back story, CFR is (almost) completely the same protocol-wise as EMT-B, there are some differences, but a CFR Firefighter (should) be able to keep you alive as best as he can when compared to an EMT. All members of the (fireside) of the Department maintain their CFR Certification until they reach the rank of Battalion Chief.

Members can keep their EMT-B and EMT-P Certifications, but are only to practice CFR-D when operating as an FDNY Member (a lot of members are Volunteer Members in Long Island and other states).

Engines respond to all Segment 1-3 Calls (A lot of the Immediately Threatening Calls), Such as Heart Attacks, Major Bleeding, ped struck by train, childbirth..etc. Truck Companies do not respond to CFR Runs, but many (I believe now all of them?) carry basic CFR Equipment.

There are (apparently) plans to force members coming over from EMS to maintain their EMT-B/EMT-P certifications. (You can read into that here ) The department might possibly want to switch to running things such as ALS Engines like other departments in the country.

Basically, the job for the fire side at Traumas is to keep the patient alive for long enough, to extricate them..etc.

Rescue Medics have nearly the same Hi-Angle, Trench Rescue, and Confined Space Certifications as Rescue and Squad Companies (primarily shorter classes). And may treat in place if they arrive soon enough (Crush Syndrome is a big one). And even then, they could be 10-30 minutes away depending on where this is happening in the city, so often times Field Units will simply stabilize then transport them once extricated.

 

[F117AN]

You aren't clueless, just NYC's Medical System is a bit of a mess.

First, just some back story, CFR is (almost) completely the same protocol-wise as EMT-B, there are some differences, but a CFR Firefighter (should) be able to keep you alive as best as he can when compared to an EMT. All members of the (fireside) of the Department maintain their CFR Certification until they reach the rank of Battalion Chief.

Members can keep their EMT-B and EMT-P Certifications, but are only to practice CFR-D when operating as an FDNY Member (a lot of members are Volunteer Members in Long Island and other states).

Engines respond to all Segment 1-3 Calls (A lot of the Immediately Threatening Calls), Such as Heart Attacks, Major Bleeding, ped struck by train, childbirth..etc. Truck Companies do not respond to CFR Runs, but many (I believe now all of them?) carry basic CFR Equipment.

There are (apparently) plans to force members coming over from EMS to maintain their EMT-B/EMT-P certifications. (You can read into that here ) The department might possibly want to switch to running things such as ALS Engines like other departments in the country.

Basically, the job for the fire side at Traumas is to keep the patient alive for long enough, to extricate them..etc.

Rescue Medics have nearly the same Hi-Angle, Trench Rescue, and Confined Space Certifications as Rescue and Squad Companies (primarily shorter classes). And may treat in place if they arrive soon enough (Crush Syndrome is a big one). And even then, they could be 10-30 minutes away depending on where this is happening in the city, so often times Field Units will simply stabilize then transport them once extricated.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain.

I have a slightly different perspective, being both Canadian and more specifically living in a province that recognizes two additional categories pre-hospital cert. My local Job, the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service (the parent org of WFD and WEMS), runs Primary Care Paramedics (equivalent to the American EMT-B) on all companies, regardless of whether it’s an Engine, Truck, Rescue (Rescue-Engine or Heavy Rescue, brass can’t have too many pure Rescues apparently), HazMat, a Squad (our squads use the same type of van as the RACs), or safety officer (equivalent to SB01).

Primary Care Paramedics, which are above an EMR, but below an Intermediate Care Paramedic (unique to Manitoba, BLS-ALS hybrid), Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS), and Critical Care Paramedic (ALS-ICU hybrid).

PCPs practice at the same level of a US EMT-B, so they provide the full BLS suite with the ability to tack on extra certs for IV/IO. ICPs are a sort of hybrid between PCPs and ACPs, having a scope of practice that is a copy of the PCP but with a few more things added including cardioversion, cardio pacing, and additional medication-administration permissions. ICPs are typically just PCPs that are on the ACP pipeline and finished their first year of the WFPS ACP program.

In the question I’m about to ask, ACPs and CCPs don’t matter, so let’s pretend they don’t exist.

Is there any way the Job down there could run a similar way, putting EMT-Bs on Companies that roll to medicals not only to take refusals of medical care to free up EMS, but to also provide better quality care in those Segment 1-3 calls where they’re needed most?

Thanks again,

Your Northern Neighbour.

 

[NikFDNY]

Is there any way the Job down there could run a similar way, putting EMT-Bs on Companies that roll to medicals not only to take refusals of medical care to free up EMS, but to also provide better quality care in those Segment 1-3 calls where they’re needed most?

The main difference is very minor in the protocols between CFR and EMT-B (there are overall a few, but much less than what the fire side will generally be operating at). While it can be argued that the Patient will receive a better standard of care if an EMT rather than a CFR FF treats them, there is, I suppose, one main reason: money. If the Department forced every member, or even just a select few, to become, maintain, or use EMT-B, they would need to be paid more than they already are as Firefighters.