CHICAGO GOES DEFENSIVE

seniorofficer

seniorofficer

Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
296
CHICAGO GOES "DEFENSIVE"

Anyone else have a potential problem with this? I hope this isn't a trend that will spread in all directions from Chicago.
What happens when the "defensive" decision is made, and there's no indication at 3 a.m. that the building "may be" occupied because there's no one outside to tell you - that it is? I hate to make any presumptions based on the fact that this commissioner may or may not be aware of the possibilities in a non-vacant building of unknown occupants, or has the fireground knowledge and/or experience to cause this decision to be made.

"Initiate interior attack and search/rescue operations only if there are clearly visible
victims who are in imminent danger, or if information is received from the Fire
Alarm Office or from persons on scene that there are victims trapped inside the
structure."

And if none of those conditions are met, you automatically presume there's nobody inside? This has the potential to cause more problems than it will solve. JMO

www.fireengineering.com

New Order for Chicago Firefighters: Start in Defensive Mode

A new general order from the Chicago (IL) Fire Department indicates that firefighters must start any non-high-rise fire in a defensive mode.
www.fireengineering.com www.fireengineering.com
 
seniorofficer said:
CHICAGO GOES "DEFENSIVE"

Anyone else have a potential problem with this? I hope this isn't a trend that will spread in all directions from Chicago.
What happens when the "defensive" decision is made, and there's no indication at 3 a.m. that the building "may be" occupied because there's no one outside to tell you - that it is? I hate to make any presumptions based on the fact that this commissioner may or may not be aware of the possibilities in a non-vacant building of unknown occupants, or has the fireground knowledge and/or experience to cause this decision to be made.

"Initiate interior attack and search/rescue operations only if there are clearly visible
victims who are in imminent danger, or if information is received from the Fire
Alarm Office or from persons on scene that there are victims trapped inside the
structure."

And if none of those conditions are met, you automatically presume there's nobody inside? This has the potential to cause more problems than it will solve. JMO

Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
Might I recommend the Face Book site Second Battalion CFD.
 
seniorofficer said:
CHICAGO GOES "DEFENSIVE"

Anyone else have a potential problem with this? I hope this isn't a trend that will spread in all directions from Chicago.
What happens when the "defensive" decision is made, and there's no indication at 3 a.m. that the building "may be" occupied because there's no one outside to tell you - that it is? I hate to make any presumptions based on the fact that this commissioner may or may not be aware of the possibilities in a non-vacant building of unknown occupants, or has the fireground knowledge and/or experience to cause this decision to be made.

"Initiate interior attack and search/rescue operations only if there are clearly visible
victims who are in imminent danger, or if information is received from the Fire
Alarm Office or from persons on scene that there are victims trapped inside the
structure."

And if none of those conditions are met, you automatically presume there's nobody inside? This has the potential to cause more problems than it will solve. JMO

Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]
I am sure the trapped Family on the top floor has a potential problem with this.
 
Seems like a document aimed at hanging the front line supervisors out and protecting the upper echelon while putting the public at risk.
 
This is absurd. They’re going to go defensive on a small kitchen fire with “smoke showing” just because there’s nobody reported trapped? That’s how the document reads…
 
Brandon Johnson and all his little minions! Just another great example of a management team that has no freaking idea regarding what happens on the fire scene. Someone promoted beyond capabilities with an "idea"!
 
Exactly what problem is this order meant to address?

Exactly what is the definition of a working fire?

Forget victims. If the attack begins as a defensive operation, under what circumstances is it "legal" to switch to offensive tactics?

Exactly why is a hi-rise building treated differently?

Is this order kinda like a dog marking it's territory?
 
Then again, this is Chicago. Ken Little tells the story-

Engine 103 was organized at 624 W. Harrison Street on October 1, 1906.

On 9/23/1952 the 2nd Division Marshal Headquarters was moved into 103's quarters. 103 is in the 7th Battalion and 1st Division, so the 2nd Division Marshal has no command function in the fire house.

One day, 103 gets a company still for a building fire directly across the street. The 2nd Division Marshal looks out the window (since he has nothing else to do), gets on the Marshal line and orders Main Fire Alarm to transmit the Box and then a 2-11.

Main gave him the Box, but declined the 2-11, telling him he was not assigned and not in charge of the fire.

On 2/1/1954, the 2nd Division was moved to Engine 24's quarters on W. Warren Boulevard.
 
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