FDNY apparatus placement

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May 27, 2013
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Good evening, what is the typical placement of apparatuses for the FDNY on a fire scene? I know with CFD the first in engine pulls past the fire building to leave room for the first in truck. The first in truck "owns" the front of the building to get the main to the roof. The Second in engine backs down on the first in truck. The second truck goes either on a cross street or to the rear and throws a second ladder so the roof team has another day off. Is this how it works for the FDNY? Thanks.
 

mack

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Chicago - welcome to our site. All comments, questions, contributions are encouraged and appreciated.
 
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If hydrant is in front of the building, most likely hook up there, unless OSS disc is on it. Makes for an easier stretch and don't like to pass up a working hydrant. Depending on Building type truck can usually work around that scenario.
 
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Real answer, in general NYC is significantly different than most other cities, many of them can go to the 3 side with rigs (im pretty sure in some places like you said its SOP for at least an engine and truck to go to the 3 side). For many parts of NYC thats simply not feasible or possible. If possible and when available a tower ladder will try to get the throat of the building if its an H type, or just generally the front. An aerial can get its stick to the roof from a corner, companies that run together a lot with one being a TL and one being a stick are pretty well practiced at this.
 
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Chicago from the mid 1980's Engine 14/Truck 19 first due at a chocolate factory fire, 14 hit the hydrant on the corner and 19 went to vent the glass brick windows. Pretty much the same today but they try to leave space for the tower ladder if possible and practical.
 

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May 27, 2013
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Yes I think in Chicago they are big with the first in truck owing the front of the building. I would imagine that overhead obstructions such as power lines and trees can change things. When I listened to an episode of Chicagos bravest stories, it sounded like engineers (drivers on an engine company) can tell if that's the case. I have a feeling that being aware of overhead obstructions, is a universal part of fire apparatus training.
 
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Most of the areas that I worked in Columbus, Ohio had alleys. SOP's were for the 2nd due ladder to try to get to the rear(3 side). Tillers could usually make it, aerial platforms, not so much. They also carry 1000 ft of 5 inch diameter supply hose on every engine company. The engine companies tend to want to ''lay a line in'' to the fire building as opposed to laying out to the hydrant. That sometimes causes issues with access to the front with narrow streets, single engines coming from opposite direction of 1st ladder, charged supply hose blocking apparatus, etc. Every situation is different and the apparatus drivers need to be on their toes at all times! Just my 2 cents.
 
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As a Truck chauffer I always tried to Ladder the building, either the roof or front of Building, either to vent or remove someone hanging out a window. Were I worked we usually had adjoining buildings so if ladder is not possible to be in front of the bldg. roof man could use adjoining bldg. that I ladder to get to the roof. A lot of times He maybe able to use adjoining bldg. to attain roof access if ladder is being used to remove victims. I believe, unfortunately more FF's die from water problems than lack of laddering problems.
 
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As a Truck chauffer I always tried to Ladder the building, either the roof or front of Building, either to vent or remove someone hanging out a window. Were I worked we usually had adjoining buildings so if ladder is not possible to be in front of the bldg. roof man could use adjoining bldg. that I ladder to get to the roof. A lot of times He maybe able to use adjoining bldg. to attain roof access if ladder is being used to remove victims. I believe, unfortunately more FF's die from water problems than lack of laddering problems.
I would imagine things such as trees and power lines change to ball game, I have feeling that you are taught to look out for them regardless if you driving an engine or truck.
 
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^^^^^ EL Tracks could be problematic.....at certain points they might be higher or lower ......in certain Station layouts the Token Booth area (sometime containing offices or maintenance areas) were sort of hung below the actual tracks making the structure even lower) ......one tactic to enable using the Aerial on a bldg fronting on El Tracks was to enter the sidewalk from the corner then drive down the sidewalk....the only drawback at times might be vaults extending under the sidewalk out from the cellar weakening the sidewalk.....most times the casualties were just a bent steel cellar sidewalk door or grating or a corner Mail Box knocked over.....the sidewalks were generally narrow & cars parked at the curb & the bldg itself often negated fully pulling out the old manual tormentors on our Tractor Trailer but raising the Aerial in line pretty vertical & only having to rotate it towards the bldg mostly vertical allowed it to reach the objective in an emergency......one night when I was driving 108 we were interchanged with 106....we responded back to one of our normal 1st Due Boxes on Broadway....we were assigned as 106 on the Fifth Alarm.....as we got a few blocks away over the Handy Talkie we heard a Mayday from a FF trapped at a top floor window on the front of the bldg ....I saw no Ladder (capable of reaching the top floor) in place in front of the bldg under the EL.....as I approached the Fire block I was able to drive onto the end of the Fire block from the corner ...I drove down the sidewalk & Raised & Rotated the Aerial & the FF jumped on the Tip...afterwards he said he wasn't going to be able to stay at the window much longer.
 
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Basic SOP for a 2 1/2 sty Peak Roof "Dwelling" is for the Roofman ( in these Peak Roof Dwellings the Roofman does NOT go to the Roof but rather selects a Sleeping Area Window to VES ) & the OV to each take a 20 Ft Straight Ladder or a 24 Ft Extension Ladder with one FF Laddering the 2nd Fl Front & the other FF selecting a window on the side or rear at the 2nd fl level....the FF entering the Front will either select a window to Ladder directly placing the Tip at the sill or if a Porch is present he will Ladder the Porch Roof & work off that accessing more than 1 window ...he should select the side of the Front opposite the side that overhead Electric Wires are strung to the bldg to avoid a hazard possibly contacting them & or being under them if they drop from the bldg....the Chauffeur puts the Aerial to the Front Attic Window unless LARGE tree limbs or heavy electrical wires prevent him & in that situation a Portable Ladder can be piggy backed from the Front Porch Roof to the Attic Window but this is not as effective as the Aerial which can easily vent the window & provide a much more stable platform for entry & exit as well as an area to stack multiple victims if need be.........(I say Dwelling rather than the overused misnomer PD or Private Dwelling as a good amount of them in NYC are no longer simply 1 or even 2 Families....people can be crammed in all areas like cellars...attics etc ... or a "South Jamaica Cottage" which is a structure originally built with the house as a 1 sty garage but is now used illegally as a separate home often with heat & some with AC ... a Fire in one of these requires a complete search including the rafter level in the peak if it is not a flat roof as Sleeping Lofts are sometime constructed up there.
 
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To the members who contributed to this topic; "FDNY Apparatus Placement", Thank you for your contributions from various cities and procedures.

By sharing your individual thoughts here, I'm sure there are members, as well as officers, both career and volunteer firefighters, who have learned from your comments.

As they say: "knowledge increases by sharing - not by saving"

Thank you guys.
 
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