FDNY Won't Rush

Well all I'm saying is that accidents while responding is down which means the modified response is working. And less accidents is a good thing
 
I always thought lights, sirens, air horns, bells - all usually offered some added degree of safety to fire apparatus and responding members, even if moving at reduced speeds.  Tough to compete with cabs and pizza delivery vehicles while driving to an emergency.

By the way, wouldn't the first WTC fire have been a Modified Response box?  E 10 heard something and responded to investigate a muffled noise.  Eventually transmitted the 10-75 without seeing much.
 
[Quote Mack: By the way, wouldn't the first WTC fire have been a Modified Response box?  E 10 heard something and responded to investigate a muffled noise.  Eventually transmitted the 10-75 without seeing much. Quote]    Then I remember E6 shouting on the radio: "Urgent, we have a 10-45 on our bumper!"
 
mack said:
I always thought lights, sirens, air horns, bells - all usually offered some added degree of safety to fire apparatus and responding members, even if moving at reduced speeds.  Tough to compete with cabs and pizza delivery vehicles while driving to an emergency.
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I have to disagree.  Lights and sirens do not make people move out of the way, nor do they make us safer.  Common sense and a defensive approach to apparatus operation is what makes us safer.  We have our warning devices, but what it boils down to is whether or not someone is going to give us the right of way. 

That being said, I do not like the modified response policy one bit.  It's short sighted and a dangerous gamble.  We can only operate with the tools the city gives us.  If one of those tools is a slower response, we'll just have to slow down our operations to insure the members safety.  Responding with lights and sirens to an emergency, operating with due regard, isn't what causes accidents.  Racing to beat the first due companies to gas leaks is what causes accidents.
 
I drive fire appliances, (apparatus) in central london, and have done for a number of years, i mainly drive ladders, and it can take us 10-20 minutes to get to an incident a mile form the station or our location at the time of the call, central london is notoriously ridiculously congested, and is in the top  five off the most congested cities in the world, along with Paris, some south american cities, and ofcourse NYC, i have found that lights and sirens do have an effect, and people do try to give way or move over, but in cities like NYC, London and simmilar, the fact is there is just nowhere for anyone to go,, even if they had all the will in the world to let you through. I had a day shift last week, we had 6 calls in the morning, before the (!!)appliance broke, and we managed to get to just 2 of them, the rest we couldnt make enough progress.

I often just sit in traffic with the lights on for 5 minutes, no sirens,with people driving up onto curbs and beeping each other, in an effort to make space, but to be honest, if there is no space for anyone to move to, then there is nowhere for them, or us to go.

I think that is the case in NYC, yes you get people who just dont give a ratz cock that your an emergency vehicle, but the majority of the time, its just a case that there is nowhere to go, and with the additional problem of the police prosecuting drivers for crossing the white line at red traffic lights to let fire engines and ambulances through over here in London doesnt help.

I think its just the number of people on the roads thats the problem, more than the attitude of the majority of people on the road.

Lights and sirens do make a difference.

JT
 
My own opinion,most people try to get out of the way. But when you hear sirens, most of the time I have no idea of where they are. In addition we have the system of a strobe setting off the traffic lights. My wife says CFD ambulances DO NOT activate suburban lite/sirns. Maybe this problem is deeper than we think, bit I still agree there are people who are just STUPID/INDIFERENT. They think they are more importamt.
 
Heres a clip on youtube, Soho Fire station, central london, 1992, ak three applainces get a call, the traffic in london is worse now than it is in this video at certain times of the day in london, as it is in NYC, but it does illustrate, that people do try to move, when light an sirens are heard, but often, as is the case in central city locations and built up areas, either cannot move, or due to the noise of the sirnes rebounding of the buildings, have no idea where the appliances/'rigs are coming from.

London Fire Brigade - A24 Soho shout - all three

The camera footage is in a 100 foot turntable ladder, i drove this machine at the end of its life, before it was written off in a serious collision with another fire engine, not by me!!!!

JT

 
Rodent251 said:
I think its just the number of people on the roads thats the problem, more than the attitude of the majority of people on the road.

Lights and sirens do make a difference.

JT
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I agree with you.  There is no doubt that lights/siren's help us arrive at our destination faster by bypassing traffic and traffic control devices.  The point I was trying to make is that warning devices don't make us safer.  The manor in which we respond makes us safer.  You can't throw on the lights and sirens and go bombing down the avenue expecting that everyone will stop/pull over.  They won't.  As illustrated in your video, they don't have anywhere to move to, or they have the windows up and the music blasting.  The same goes for for safe operation once we've arrived.  Outside of a burning building, I'd have to say that the highway is the most dangerous place we operate.  I've been at accidents where we've closed a roadway at a fork.  We use the rigs and flares.  Some of the flares were far a part enough to allow someone to fit a vehicle.  Anyone who could fit through did.  They didn't care WHAT we were doing there.



**Side note.  I've had the opportunity to spend some time in London.  Once I had some time to kill and happened across a fire station.  I knocked on the door and the guys were great.  They gave real truth to the phrase that firemen are firemen everywhere.  I had a great time!
 
grumpy grizzly said:
I understand that sirens are distorted by buildings but how about the mopes walking in front of the rigs >:( >:( >:( >:( 8)
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Come on Grump!  That's an easy one.  Everyone has someplace more important to be than you do ::).
 
its even worse now, as im sure evryone knows, with the advent of Ipods etc etc, people are cocooned in thier own little world with music or audio books playing in their ears, without nay idea of whats going on around them!!! Cyclists are just as bad, if not worse!!

JT
 
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