Providence, RI Fire Dept in Chaos

Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
6,151
The Mayor of Providence has forced firefighters to go from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hour work week. The mayor has broken their binding contract between the city and it's firefighters. A hearing is scheduled sometime in December.

  The department is in chaos as described in this article. The city has hired it's THIRD Fire Chief in ONE year.

  www.golocalprov.com/news/providence-fire-department-in-chaos
 
Tonight (Dec 5, 2015), the Providence Fire Department has browned out Two Engine Cos and Two Ladder Cos.

Also reduced tonight is their manning from 4 to 3 firefighters on each piece.

Closed is Engines 4 and 11, Ladders 3 and 4.

In the 40 years that I have spent buffing in Providence, this has NEVER happened. Providence has always had 15 Engine Cos, 8 Ladder Cos, 1 Heavy Rescue (called Special Hazards 1) and today they also run 7 Ambulances (called Rescues). They also have 1 Deputy Chief (Division 1) and 1 Battalion Chief (Batt 3) on duty each shift. A few years ago they closed down Batt 2. The only unit ever closed.

  When Special Hazards 1 (Heavy Rescue) became a fully manned unit, they closed Engine Co 1 to do that. But no manning was ever lost.
 
The sad reality is many departments are going to 3 per rig. I am surprised that a city like Providence would do this, an unfortunate situation.
 
At one time Providence had 24 Water Companies and 12 Truck Companies--13 if you count the very short lived L-13 at Rochambeau Ave.  I think this was just a winter time unit for one season.

In the 40's and 50's a great reorganization was done and numerous new stations were built and companies tapped out of service or consolidated.  Many of these stations were incredibly well located.  Thing of Messer St. Branch Ave, Atwells Ave or Admiral St and you can see stations were built where the companies could respond quickly in multiple directions to cover numerous neighborhoods.  Fortunately that makes closing companies very difficult today, even though there may be an excess of companies.

Over the years the following companies have been tapped out of service.  E-1 to establish the Hazards, E-6 (North Main St and E-13 (Academy Ave) on one Sunday in the late 60'.  E-2 when E-9 and L-8 moved to Brook St. Tenders 7 and 9 , although I think one of those pieces actually still is used by the Honor Guard, C-4 at La Salle Sq. and BC-2 most recently.

I don't remember E15-16 and L 7-8.  E-15 was on Roger Williams Ave where the current E-11 is.  I know E-16 was at Branch Ave and Charles St. and may have moved in with E-17 on Branch Ave. for a while.  The two missing trucks I believe were at Hartford Ave and Humbolt Ave, but I don't know the numbers.

Over the years units were renumbered. E-17 became E-16 and then E-2, E-18 became E-13, E-19 became E-6 and E-20 became E-15.  L-9 became L-7 and L-10 became L-8

Chief 4, was actually sort of the Deputy Chief was tapped out of service long age and BC-2 was squished recently.  Chief 1 became what is now BC-3.  When there were four chiefs they were  C-1 at Branch Ave. C-2 at Point St. then Allens Ave. C-3 at Atwells Ave and C-4 at La Salle Sq.  There were only three Rescues  R-1 at La Salle Sq., R-2 at Messer St. I think and R-3 at of all places Branch Ave.

If you are interested in old fire stations.  There are at least 20 building standing and mostly being used in Providence that a one time were PFD stations.

This discussion probably should be continued on some other thread.
 
An interesting note. Later in the evening, as I understand it, the mayor wanted to REopen Engine 4 in the wealthier East side of Providence and he closed the busier Engine Co 10 instead, in the much poorer South end neighborhood. My guess is that his political support comes from that more wealthier part of the city, so I guess that played a part in his decision.

  For some of us here we remember the days when the FDNY closed some 50 companies. Most were in the busier, poorer neighborhoods also.

  Last night the Providence Fire Department was down a total of 20 % from their required staffing. I believe the upcoming hearing on this entire matter is coming up on December 16th. But even if the Providence Firefighters win their case, with the shortage they have now, it will take at least another year before their total manning is up to normal. Not counting the fact that those newly hired firefighters lack the experience of so many that have left.


  Maxim, you are correct. I know that the city did have a reorganization and many new firehouses were constructed. I started going to Providence around 1975 and I know you were there long before I was. (Maxim and I know some of the same GREAT guys that were once a part of the Providence FD but have since retired).

  As an outsider, and a retired firefighter from a much smaller city myself, I was able to learn many tricks of the trade from those Providence Firefighters (just like I did from the FDNY). I would then try to pass on those skills to the members of our department. It actually worked quite well.

As I see it now, ONE MAN has totally destroyed one of the BEST and BUSIEST Fire Departments in the northeast. The moral in the department, as you can probably guess is terrible. Many of those that are in the firehouses are forced to stay beyond their normal shifts.

  Now the mayor has also put the people of that city at risk by closing these fire companies. If the city had hired new firefighters, this would not be happening. Instead of hiring new firefighters, the mayor forced all firefighters to go from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hour work week. Breaking the written contract agreement between the city and its firefighters. The firefighters have asked the city to hire new members to replace those that retired, while the mayors claim is that the city has no money to hire them. It should also be noted clearly that the only city union NOT to endorse this mayor was the firefighters union.
 
Apparently by the end of the night E9-10 and L3-4 were out of service due to staffing. I fully commend the Mayor for what he wants to do.  HOWEVER, one would think this guy has some brains and would have vetted the options.  He is coming across as a cockamamie idiot. This is due mainly because the local, for reasons known only to them, supported the infamous Buddy Cianci in the last mayoral election.  The whole process is becoming quite juvenile.  I am surprised that the city council has not stepped in to put an end to the nonsense.  It would appear the Mayor and the Pare, may well win the battle (at least they are going to spend money trying to win it) but badly loose the war.

I bet somebody, (IAFF, ICMA) has the resources to, at no cost to the city, determine the appropriate number of companies and staffing to handle the Fire, Rescue and Emergency Medial needs of the City.  My guess is a few less companies and just about the some staffing .  Something like 12 & 6 , 8 EMS units, Air Show, 3 Chiefs, EMS and Safety Officers all with proper staffing.  Something to the effect of 105 people per shift,with the proper staffing factor this would take about 136 people per shift.  This all would mean effective yet more efficient service. i.e. saving money.
 
More on this Providence FD story.

http://golocalprov.com/news/providence-fire-department-total-confusion-about-whos-in-charge
 
nfd2004 said:
The Mayor of Providence has forced firefighters to go from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hour work week. The mayor has broken their binding contract between the city and it's firefighters. A hearing is scheduled sometime in December.

  The department is in chaos as described in this article. The city has hired it's THIRD Fire Chief in ONE year.

  www.golocalprov.com/news/providence-fire-department-in-chaos

  For the City of Providence, RI Firefighters, "little progress has been made".

  Now the city is hiring a consultant to do a study on the Providence Fire Department. New England's THIRD Largest city.

  This and other issues are included in the link below.

  www.providencejournal.com/article/20160109/news/160109409
 
Amazing. Never have the money for the fire-fighters but always have it for consultants! Who, the mayors in-laws?
 
Article from Fire Engineering January, 2016. Written by Retired Providence Firefighter Michael Morse.

"The Buffs across the Street"

  "Who are those guys" ? I asked one of the firefighters who was standing with me on the ramp at the Atwells Ave Fire Station. Ladder 6 was my assignment for the night. It was an overtime shift and my first night in one of the busiest fire stations in the Northeast.

  "Dings" was the answer, as if I knew what that meant.

  "What's a Ding" ? I asked.

  "Those guys", somebody said and pointed across the street where six cars were parked and about a dozen guys stood around them, shooting the breeze, much like we were doing on our side of the street.

  Turns out the "Dings" were the local fire buffs. I had no idea that people actually loved the fire service so much that they would wait outside the busy fire stations, listening to their scanners, and respond to the same fire scenes we did. Only with cameras instead of axes and poles.

  "Why don't we invite them over" ? I asked. The other firefighters either laughed or walked away. I couldn't figure their response out then and I still can't figure it out. The way I saw it, those people across the street were out supporters. For whatever reason they just weren't able to respond to the fires with us. But I'm sure they would have loved every second of it if they could. Maybe they were on a list somewhere waiting for their chance. Maybe they had an injury or disability that prohibited them from doing the job that we took for granted. Maybe they were simply happy to be a part of our world in whatever capacity they could. Whatever the reason, I thought that they were a part of us in some way. "I still do".

  Buffs, Dings, Uncured Hams - whatever people call them, I always liked having them around. At the risk of sounding condescending toward them, I thought it the ultimate compliment to us - the paid firefighters - to actually have what could be considered a fan club. As the years of my career went on, I got to know many of the people who buffed fires and learned they are very passionate about the fire service and advocates for it. Many of them knew more about the history, the workings, the politics, and characters that make up a fire department than we did.

  Good thing I always respected them. Karma works always. Being retired gives me ample opportunity to "Ding". If I had a dollar for every fire truck I followed I'd have a lot of bucks. When at home my ears instantly tune into sirens in the distance. And sometimes it's all I can do to not get into my personnel vehicle (the one with those fire department stickers) and find out what's going on.

  What can I say ? I was born a Ding. Then I became a firefighter. But once the boots came off, and the turnout gear was displayed in the garage, back to my roots I went. I have yet to sit across the street from a busy firehouse, but don't be surprised  if someday you see a tall, grey, and devilishly handsome old man, outside your firehouse, watching and waiting with his scanner tuned to your frequency.

  And if you happen to see that guy don't be afraid to invite him across the street to join you. He might have something interesting to say.

  Michael Morse,
  Retired Fire Captain
  Providence (RI) Fire Dept.

 
For the Providence Fire Department things just seem to be getting worse.

Just last week, three younger firefighters quit to take other fire department jobs. Adding to the departments already 25 plus percent understaffed numbers. Two went to a department in Connecticut and one went to another department in Rhode Island. One of those new guys had to work 123 hours Christmas week because they are so under staffed.

The entire cause of this serious issue is that the mayor has forced all firefighters to go from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hour work week in an effort to eliminate full time positions. "He hopes" this will save the city money. Of course this is in complete violation of the current working contract agreed upon by its firefighters and city officials as well.

  Providence is the largest city in Rhode Island and the THIRD Largest city in New England. Second only to Boston and Worcester, Mass.
 
  This month (Jan., 2016) 14 firefighters are retiring, including one commanding officer. There are now only TWO Commanding Officers left for the entire force. Providence FD has lost almost all of it's experienced officers and members. If it keeps going this way, there won't be anybody left.
 
Providence Fire Captain fired.

Grievances costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars.

  www.turnto10.com/news/local/providence-fire-captain-fired-grievances-costing-city-hundreds-of-thousands-of-dollars 
 
The Providence Fire Department plans to apply for a Federal Grant to hire 80 new firefighters. Fatigue and injuries, are taking it's toll. The fire department just can not function much longer being short by roughly one quarter of it's required strength. There are also mandatory retirements coming soon because of age, creating more issues. There is no current hiring list to draw from.

Here is a link explaining some of the issues and the hopes of hiring 80 new firefighters using federal grants. (thanks to fdny1075k for providing me with this).

  http://wpri.com/2016/04/01/seeking-80-new-firefighters-providence-pleads-case-for-massive-federal-grant/
 
Latest News is, "Could the Captial City of Connecticut" be next.

Word is that the Hartford city mayor wants to do the same thing to Hartford as the mayor of Providence, RI has. Increase the firefighters normal work schedule from 42 hours per week to 56 hours per week.

So let's take a look to see just how well this has worked out in Providence starting from the beginning of April, 2016, until now, April 18th.

http://m.golocalprov.com/news/nearly-40-providence-firefighters-have-been-injured-since-beginning-of-apri 
 
nfd2004 said:
The Providence Fire Department plans to apply for a Federal Grant to hire 80 new firefighters. Fatigue and injuries, are taking it's toll. The fire department just can not function much longer being short by roughly one quarter of it's required strength. There are also mandatory retirements coming soon because of age, creating more issues. There is no current hiring list to draw from.

Here is a link explaining some of the issues and the hopes of hiring 80 new firefighters using federal grants. (thanks to fdny1075k for providing me with this).

  http://wpri.com/2016/04/01/seeking-80-new-firefighters-providence-pleads-case-for-massive-federal-grant/

  The Providence FD has finally decided to hire new firefighters. During training in Probie School each newly hired firefighter is paid minimum hourly wage. That Probie school last about six months because a new firefighter is taught how to operate all the equipment and apparatus. It also includes EMT training. Its a very long process, but it has always been like that. Guys with families, sometimes end up applying for food stamps etc., and I believe the department helps the members get that accomplished.

  But here is where the new changes take effect. The current hourly rate will actually be about $14.00/hour for a Providence firefighter. The rate is actually $21.00/hour, BUT you work 56 hours and actually get paid for 42 hours.

  During this past Fourth of July weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon), ALL Providence Firefighters were required to work 48 hours, scheduled or not. 
 
Back
Top