Rescue 3 down at the shops in Queens

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MP1234

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Rescue 3 down at the shops in Queens

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I don't know when they'll receive the new rig but was told that old Rescue 3 was at the Shops for transmission work.
 
Here is rescue 1 and 4,and a soc decon unit(dont know if its a new unit) in Little Ferry. The pic is from a friend of mine.

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All the new rescues are beening modified at the shops by ferrara. I spoke to the mechanic while he was working on our apparatus earlier today. He said the new rescues are low  in the rear and are hitting the appron while pulling out and backing into quarters.
 
I stopped by R-3 a few weeks ago and their rig was in the shop. They were using the old R-4 rig.
 
Lone319Wolf said:
From  what  I  understood  Rescues  2  3  4  5  are  being  replaced  with  the  new  Ferrara.
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All 5 are die to be replaced. They are supposed to be done I believe in reverse order with 5 going first and 1 being last. Unfortunately the Pierce will be coming out of front line service.
 
In regard to reply # 4 above concerning the Rescues being modified due to being low in the rear & dragging on the apron.......why does this sound familiar ?......this has been happening in the past with various rigs.....who should be on top of this before the rigs arrive ?
 
On a related note, the 1996 HME/Saulsbury rigs formerly assigned to Rescue 3 (SR9603) and Rescue 4 (SR9604) are sitting in the NYC DCAS auction yard on Kent Av. in Brooklyn.  All of the lettering and striping has been painted over and the emergency lights removed, but other than that they LOOK (through a chain link fence at least) pretty intact.  Also awaiting auction is another 1994/95 FWD/Baker tower and the 1997 Seagrave formerly assigned to Engine 23.
 
68jk09 said:
In regard to reply # 4 above concerning the Rescues being modified due to being low in the rear & dragging on the apron.......why does this sound familiar ?......this has been happening in the past with various rigs.....who should be on top of this before the rigs arrive ?
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I was thinking the same thing.  How in the world with all the work they do on detailed specifications for new apparatus did FDNY overlook this critical aspect?  Especially when they have had the same problem in the past.  Somebody certainly dropped the ball along the line somewhere!
 
Unfortunately, these problems are not limited to FDNY.  The new fleet of double decker trains put in service by the LIRR over the last few years will not fit in the new East Side Access Access Tunnels (under construction) to Grand Central - you would think the tunnel envelope would have been a design consideration in the purchase of the new vehicles rather than an oversight!
 
efd274 said:
Unfortunately, these problems are not limited to FDNY.  The new fleet of double decker trains put in service by the LIRR over the last few years will not fit in the new East Side Access Access Tunnels (under construction) to Grand Central - you would think the tunnel envelope would have been a design consideration in the purchase of the new vehicles rather than an oversight!
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Unfortunately the MTA LIRR couldn't accommodate the Bi-Level rail cars.  The reason being; the portion of the East Side Access tunnel that crosses the East River was constructed at the same time that the "F" train of the NYCTA was laid.  The tunnel is 4 tubes, two on top of each other.  The two lower (I think) tubes have been sealed and empty since it's construction half a century ago and larger bi-level trains weren't even a pipe-dream.  So, it doesn't matter how large you build the rest of the tunnel, as there is a choke point in the middle.  The clearance is too small to allow even the smallest bi-level train to pass.  Additionally, I believe that the ESA tunnel is used by LIRR lines that are fully electrified.

As for the FDNY apparatus coming in; you have a super complex spec and if it ends up sitting a little lower on the suspension, when fully laden, they just have to make some adjustments.  No big deal.  As long as Ferrara builds a quality product and they stand behind it, I'm sure it'll be fine.  They'll make the little fixes they need and then they'll be up and rolling.
 
JohnnyBopp said:
As for the FDNY apparatus coming in; you have a super complex spec and if it ends up sitting a little lower on the suspension, when fully laden, they just have to make some adjustments.  No big deal.  As long as Ferrara builds a quality product and they stand behind it, I'm sure it'll be fine.  They'll make the little fixes they need and then they'll be up and rolling.
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You're making a potentially serious problems seem trivial.  I'm sure if there was a specification for the maximum allowable weight for the vehicle.  I'm also sure there was a specification for the minimum angle of departure (as well as approach) the trucks were supposed to be able to navigate.  These both are very normal specifications when specifying any piece of apparatus.  Obviously Ferrara miscalculated something in the design process.  While I'm sure they can correct the problem raising the rear end with additional springs may change the entire geometry of the trucks suspension.  This could potentially cause problems in the long run.  We shall wait and see.  Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen with the new Haz-Mat they are building!
 
Bulldog said:
JohnnyBopp said:
As for the FDNY apparatus coming in; you have a super complex spec and if it ends up sitting a little lower on the suspension, when fully laden, they just have to make some adjustments.  No big deal.  As long as Ferrara builds a quality product and they stand behind it, I'm sure it'll be fine.  They'll make the little fixes they need and then they'll be up and rolling.
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You're making a serious problems seem trivial.  I'm sure if there was a specification for the maximum allowable weight for the vehicle.  I'm also sure there was a specification for the minimum angle of departure (as well as approach) the trucks were supposed to be able to navigate.  These both are very normal specifications when specifying any piece of apparatus.  Obviously Ferrara miscalculated something in the design process.  While I'm sure they can correct the problem raising the rear end with additional springs may change the entire geometry of the trucks suspension.  This could potentially cause problems in the long run.  We shall wait and see.  Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen with the new Haz-Mat they are building!
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:eek:  Trivial?  No.  Serious?  Nope, not that either.  So the rig scrapes the concrete a little.  It'll be fixed and thats that.  Maybe the apron of the quarters in question was paved in the past year.  Who knows.  Lets not sound the alarm over a couple of adjustments to a custom order of 5 never-before-built rigs.

I don't know what kind of apparatus you're used to using, but we're pretty accustomed to giant pieces of rolling sh!t.  So what.  It's a tool box and as long as it gets us there safely and with our equipment, we'll make it work.  Lousy suspension and a terrible ride, little or no A/C, pumps that leak like a sieve and temperamental aerials.  They get beat up, they have a lot of miles on harsh roads and they see a lot of work.  Trust me, while following a spec is important, a minor adjustment to the ride height won't be the end of the world. 

From all accounts, Ferrara is an eager supplier who is aiming to be reliable.  As long as these issues are corrected in a timely manor with no cost to NYC, all will be well.  You wanna talk about lemons, look at the new Seagrave engines.....a lot of major component failures.
 
Bulldog said:
How in the world with all the work they do on detailed specifications for new apparatus did FDNY overlook this critical aspect?
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Bulldog said:
Obviously Ferrara miscalculated something in the design process.
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So Exactly which party is at fault?  Is FDNY's specifications to blame or did Ferrara make a miscalculation?
At this point I guess we really don't know.

I have seen these type problems often.  And as JohnnyBopp said it is likely "No Big Deal".
Many times the rear springs and/or body mounts can be changed to fix the problem
while still keepping the apparatus within the engineering/performance tolerances.

Anyway, if it was in fact Ferrara's error you can rest assured FDNY will not be acceptable
to any remedy that would would be detrimental to the apparatus in the short or long haul.

 
They've apparently fixed this problem . . . the new R5 is in service (see the post on "New FDNY Rescues")
 
Florian Knight said:
So Exactly which party is at fault?  Is FDNY's specifications to blame or did Ferrara make a miscalculation?
At this point I guess we really don't know.
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I guess one would assume that the specifications were OK because nothing was noted about having this problem was the last batch of rescues or the Pierce that Rescue 1 is using.
 
Hi.

Please can someone confirm the information I have for my records please.
These are for the Rescue Trucks but also a couple of SOC trucks.

HRU Freightliner FL106 American La France AR02001 2002 Spare Rescue 6 ?
HRU Mack MC General Rescue GR02001 2002 Spare Rescue 7 ?
HRU Emergency One Cyclone Saulsbury SR02001 2002 R1 To R4 2007
HRU Emergency One Cyclone Saulsbury SR02002 2002 R2 At R2
HRU Emergency One Cyclone Saulsbury SR02003 2002 R3 At R3
HRU Emergency One Cyclone Saulsbury SR02004 2002 R4 Reserve 2007
HRU Emergency One Cyclone Saulsbury SR02005 2002 R5 At E160
HRU Pierce Arrow XT PR07001 2007 R1 At R1
CollRT Mack MR688 Ferrara FC05000 2005 CollR2 At E280 Brooklyn
CollRT Mack MR688 Ferrara FC05001 2005 CollR1 At L25 Manhattan
CollRT Mack MR688 Ferrara FC05002 2005 CollR4 At L116 Queens
CollRT Spartan Gladiator Ferrara SC0900* 2009 CollR3 At R3
CollRT Spartan Gladiator Ferrara SC0900* 2009 CollR5 At E160/R5

SOC Mack MR688 Ferrara MR0600* 2006 SOC At E160 ( D-160 )
SOC Mack MR688 Ferrara MR0700* 2007 SOC At  ?  ( D-251 )

Thanks.  Peter.
 
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