Scott Paks return to the wire frame

Capttomo

Capttomo

Joined
Sep 7, 2020
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Just released at FDIC . Scott’s newest scba, I still call them paks, is utilizing the wire frame similar to what was used in the 80’s. Outstanding! I loved the wire frame paks. IMG_8383.jpegIMG_8382.jpeg
 
Not so sure about loving them. In 1994 while at L112 I fell backwards @3 ft on my back. I broke two vertebrae because the wire frame was so old there was no tension left, it should have acted like a shock absorber. Rite where the bottle attached to the waist.
I wrote a letter to Safety explaining there needed to be more cushioning at that point. I believe Chief Santoro? replies and asked if I would participate in a study and panel for recommendations. When I returned to full duty about 6 months later I called to inquire about the study. I was told, indirectly, that that idea was canned due to legal and $$. The costs of updating or replacement was not in the budget.
Unless these wire frame pacs have been improved or given a ‘shelf life’ I do not have great regards to them.
My opinion
 
The original NASA project F.I.R.E.S. = Firefighter Integrated Response Ensemble System that was tested in the late 1970s had a solid frame to hold the SCBA bottle in place. It was very comfortable. and very light. But it cost too much so the later, Production Verson, the Scoff 4.5 used the wire frame design. It was not as good as the NASA design, but it was much better than old FDNY Scott 1As. I was detailed to the Div. of Training, "The Rock" to test the NASA mask, in test fires at the "Rock". I was assigned to TL-18 and was the representative for the FDNY 1st Division 4th Battalion, because I was a Fire Science student. The New SCBA Facepieces and Nomex Bunker gear also came out of that NASA Technical Utilization Program.
Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired.
 
I always felt some type of padding around the lower belt would distribute the any force against the back.
Whenever the Company went to the Rock for training we would drop our mask at Mask unit and get them back after. I would always try to get exchanges for newer harnesses and face pieces. But there was never any ‘new’ harnesses. That’s the problem the job never updated that part of the mask unit. Should have a shelf life like everything else
Hopefully that has changed
 
GeoC said:
I always felt some type of padding around the lower belt would distribute the any force against the back.
Whenever the Company went to the Rock for training we would drop our mask at Mask unit and get them back after. I would always try to get exchanges for newer harnesses and face pieces. But there was never any ‘new’ harnesses. That’s the problem the job never updated that part of the mask unit. Should have a shelf life like everything else
Hopefully t
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Hope you are doing better.
 
See some rumors floating around the Scott is out of the running on the new SCBA evaluation. Anyone have concrete information on this. Sorta surprising too me.
 
I hope not but it is not surprising. Scott builds a great pak. The face mask design was always better than the rest for busy urban firefighting. While others were using 5 pull straps, if you preset your own straps, the Scott face piece can be rapidly donned like a ball cap. Field of vision better, much lighter, and the way the regulator connects to the face piece is simple and robust. Many of the others on the market like survivor, isi, and draeger had a small regulator that had to be push popped into the mask for it to latch and then you had to fumble with gloves to unlatch and remove and often the regulator was not properly latched and resulted in it popping off at the worst time. The Scott regulator was so easy to connect and disconnect with any glove. But along came 3M and they bought out Scott but kept the name, less spent on quality, less spent on innovation, and attempting to hang onto their old designs and technology as long as they could before being forced to by the latest NFPA standard or their competitors. This happens all the time when big firms buy smaller firms and when private equity and venture capitalists buy these companies. Squeeze maximum dollars by scaling back service, quality, innovation and warranties, lower spare parts inventories, merge sales reps to cover larger areas and let the legacy of the brand carry sales. This works for a while and stocks and bonuses go up until the charts begin to invert as their competitors grow more and more market share with newer, better, more advanced equipment with better support and warranty. Happens all the time. In the last 8-10 years MSA has been kicking Scott’s ass all over the country picking up previous Scott users. This includes some really big urban departments. The same thing happened with Morning Pride bunker gear. Remember? They were the gold standard of bunker gear builders. Once they had the FDNY contract sales rocketed, Honeywell bought them out and the maximum profit model was deployed. Morning Pride subsequently lost a large portion of market share. The EMS users are seeing this with their cardiac monitors. Lifepak was the gold standard. Again bought out by larger company and the maximum profit model deployed so that their legacy and name carried them. Zoll is kicking Physio Control Lifepaks ass all over the country as lifepak continues to lose large portions of market share. So to conclude my long essay (lol) I am not surprised. The MSA G series pak is a strong competitor but I am an old die hard and still prefer the Scott Facepiece for ease of use, comfort and quick donning. Keep us posted if you hear anything. Anything is possible with NYC DCA specs and bidding. Look at glove and apparatus purchasing decisions over the years 🤪. Stay well. Be Safe
 
Capttomo said:
I hope not but it is not surprising. Scott builds a great pak. The face mask design was always better than the rest for busy urban firefighting. While others were using 5 pull straps, if you preset your own straps, the Scott face piece can be rapidly donned like a ball cap. Field of vision better, much lighter, and the way the regulator connects to the face piece is simple and robust. Many of the others on the market like survivor, isi, and draeger had a small regulator that had to be push popped into the mask for it to latch and then you had to fumble with gloves to unlatch and remove and often the regulator was not properly latched and resulted in it popping off at the worst time. The Scott regulator was so easy to connect and disconnect with any glove. But along came 3M and they bought out Scott but kept the name, less spent on quality, less spent on innovation, and attempting to hang onto their old designs and technology as long as they could before being forced to by the latest NFPA standard or their competitors. This happens all the time when big firms buy smaller firms and when private equity and venture capitalists buy these companies. Squeeze maximum dollars by scaling back service, quality, innovation and warranties, lower spare parts inventories, merge sales reps to cover larger areas and let the legacy of the brand carry sales. This works for a while and stocks and bonuses go up until the charts begin to invert as their competitors grow more and more market share with newer, better, more advanced equipment with better support and warranty. Happens all the time. In the last 8-10 years MSA has been kicking Scott’s ass all over the country picking up previous Scott users. This includes some really big urban departments. The same thing happened with Morning Pride bunker gear. Remember? They were the gold standard of bunker gear builders. Once they had the FDNY contract sales rocketed, Honeywell bought them out and the maximum profit model was deployed. Morning Pride subsequently lost a large portion of market share. The EMS users are seeing this with their cardiac monitors. Lifepak was the gold standard. Again bought out by larger company and the maximum profit model deployed so that their legacy and name carried them. Zoll is kicking Physio Control Lifepaks ass all over the country as lifepak continues to lose large portions of market share. So to conclude my long essay (lol) I am not surprised. The MSA G series pak is a strong competitor but I am an old die hard and still prefer the Scott Facepiece for ease of use, comfort and quick donning. Keep us posted if you hear anything. Anything is possible with NYC DCA specs and bidding. Look at glove and apparatus purchasing decisions over the years 🤪. Stay well. Be Safe
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FDNY EMS just switched from the LIFEPAK 15 to 35.
 
Philadelphia is currently doing an SCBA evaluation also. Draeger, MSA and Scott. Scuttlebutt is that Scott is not getting the best of reviews.
 
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