Special Units Relocating

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Nov 28, 2011
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The 4th alarm - 10-60/10-66 has me wondering about a couple things. Mainly when SOC units relocate do they bring their second piece? When a Squad is acting as a Rescue can they still me assigned as a hazmat unit? Therefore needing their second piece or are they only assigned as a Rescue?

Also I noticed that a non-HMTU engine was relocated to E165 and E44 was relocated to a non-HMTU engine on SI. If needed would E44 respond and someone else bring their second piece? Or could the Engine at 165 quarters bring E165 second piece and E44 use it?

I know this is all very “what if” but NYC continues to prove that eventually the “what ifs” happen.

Thanks for the replies from an FDNY nerd in the great white north.
 
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The 4th alarm - 10-60/10-66 has me wondering about a couple things. Mainly when SOC units relocate do they bring their second piece? When a Squad is acting as a Rescue can they still me assigned as a hazmat unit? Therefore needing their second piece or are they only assigned as a Rescue?

Also I noticed that a non-HMTU engine was relocated to E165 and E44 was relocated to a non-HMTU engine on SI. If needed would E44 respond and someone else bring their second piece? Or could the Engine at 165 quarters bring E165 second piece and E44 use it?

I know this is all very “what if” but NYC continues to prove that eventually the “what ifs” happen.

Thanks for the replies from an FDNY in the great white north.
Not sure the answer on most of these questions, particularly pertaining to the second pieces. But I am attaching two segments from the 2014 communications manual regarding the relocation of SOC units. However, I should note think this policy has been changed in more recent versions of the manual, hopefully someone can provide some insight. In terms of squad acting as a rescue, I can't find the source currently but I am sure I read somewhere that when a squad is relocated to a rescue they remain a squad, they do not become a rescue. For example if SQ288 is Act. R1 and a response comes in for Manhattan requiring rescue and a squad, it would be SQ288 plus the nearest rescue, as they can still only act as a squad. Again, someone will correct me if I am wrong on this. Screen Shot 2023-02-18 at 7.58.47 AM.png
 
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The 4th alarm - 10-60/10-66 has me wondering about a couple things. Mainly when SOC units relocate do they bring their second piece? When a Squad is acting as a Rescue can they still me assigned as a hazmat unit? Therefore needing their second piece or are they only assigned as a Rescue?

Also I noticed that a non-HMTU engine was relocated to E165 and E44 was relocated to a non-HMTU engine on SI. If needed would E44 respond and someone else bring their second piece? Or could the Engine at 165 quarters bring E165 second piece and E44 use it?

I know this is all very “what if” but NYC continues to prove that eventually the “what ifs” happen.

Thanks for the replies from an FDNY in the great white north.
To answer somewhat of the 2nd piece question. I always wondered why a 95 foot tower ladder doesn’t go to a 95 foot tower ladder, HMTU doesn’t go to a HMTU, SSL doesn’t go to a SSL, Etc….

TL1 was relocated to Staten Island and was assigned to pick up SSL79 all SSLs should be the same, some carry a little more like Decon stuff from the engine companies but that’s what they are suppose to have…

Squads that relocate are acting rescues but they are really squads because a rescue is always assigned, none are available and then a SSL Ladder would be assigned.

Some squads carry some 5 gallon drums on the engine with cell block so they don’t have to take the 2nd piece but anything other then that they need there 2nd piece which SQ41 was going to SQ61 area and they picked up SQ61 2nd piece… also anyone can pick it up and drive it to the scene just like the collapse rescues.

So for the Hazmat Tech companies anyone can pick up the closest 2nd piece rig and take it to the scene.

I always thought for Manhattan maybe the squad should always bring the 2nd piece but not in the books yet lol

Also there will never be anymore than 3 Rescues at a Scene ever again. It was a mistake during 9/11 and it will never happen again.
 
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^^^^^All 5 Rescues are not supposed to be operating at the same scene since 9-11 but all 5 did respond to the Double Fatal LODD (LT CARPLUK & FF REILLY) dollar store Fire in the BX. in August 20016 (until the FC realized it & released some).
 
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Seems a little strange to me that if a Squad acting as a Rescue is still a Squad and another Rescue is assigned then why doesn’t the Squad just relocate to a vacant Squad in the borough. Maybe because while they are still assigned as a Squad they don’t have 1st, 2nd, 3rd due engine responsibilities when acting?
 
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Seems a little strange to me that if a Squad acting as a Rescue is still a Squad and another Rescue is assigned then why doesn’t the Squad just relocate to a vacant Squad in the borough. Maybe because while they are still assigned as a Squad they don’t have 1st, 2nd, 3rd due engine responsibilities when acting?
Might be more of a central location?
 

Bulldog

Bulldog
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I was thinking about the same thing reading the assignment of the units to yesterdays fire in Staten Island. My thought went a little further. All the rescues now have a fully stocked 2nd unit from what I've heard, I was wondering if the squad manned that piece and that's basically became a Rescue? It could be 1 of the reasons that the rescues now have a fully stocked 2nd piece.
 

HCO

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SOC policy is clear - a squad relocated to a rescue’s quarters is not an “acting rescue.” Such moves are intended to ensure a SOC unit is available in each borough when a major incident (10-60, 10-60 Code 1, 10-66, second or greater alarm) is in progress. Squad relocations to Manhattan Rescue 1 are, in order, 41, 288, 1. Squad relocations for other boroughs are managed by Dispatch supervisors.
 
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SOC policy is clear - a squad relocated to a rescue’s quarters is not an “acting rescue.” Such moves are intended to ensure a SOC unit is available in each borough when a major incident (10-60, 10-60 Code 1, 10-66, second or greater alarm) is in progress. Squad relocations to Manhattan Rescue 1 are, in order, 41, 288, 1. Squad relocations for other boroughs are managed by Dispatch supervisors.
I think that changed and 288 is first to Rescue 1
 
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Also I noticed that a non-HMTU engine was relocated to E165 and E44 was relocated to a non-HMTU engine on SI. If needed would E44 respond and someone else bring their second piece? Or could the Engine at 165 quarters bring E165 second piece and E44 use it?
———.

44 was originally going as a HMTU to the 4th and had the 2nd piece. Although normally restricted from relocation, They were already on Staten Island when returned and the decision was made to keep them on Staten Island. So they had the 2nd piece. If a hazmat run would have come in they would have been used.
 
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The main reason that they changed the relocation policy of a squad going to a squad was so that the relocating squad would not be assigned to basically all the engine boxes ….1st & 2nd Eng …EMS, class 3 and so. They want the relocated squad to be available for basically SOC work, responses. And the reason they still send a rescue company to any Soc incidents in the effective Boro is...A squad is not a rescue , some may not want to hear it but It’s true.
 
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True
A Squad is not a Rescue.
Rescue is equipped and trained for MRD. Squads are not.
Hence a Squad CANNOT be an Act. Rescue. They can however do all the same Tech Rescue Capabilities.
The Squad second piece is for Haz-Mat. However the companies carry a compliment of tools combined on both rigs to get the Tech Rescue done.
So if say Sq288 is relocated to R1 and a dive run comes in a Rescue MUST be assigned.

Hope this helps.
 
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^^^^^All 5 Rescues are not supposed to be operating at the same scene since 9-11 but all 5 did respond to the Double Fatal LODD (LT CARPLUK & FF REILLY) dollar store Fire in the BX. in August 20016 (until the FC realized it & released some).
Is there a thread on that?
 
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This is more of a "what if". If R1, R2, R3, R4 are all on Boxes (lets say all 4 Rescues on seperate 10-75's). And theres a 10-75 in the Bronx towards the NYC/Yonkers City Line. Would R5 go or would 1 of the Yonkers Rescues go?
 
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