Unnecessary radio messages

[bklyndisp54]

An open letter to FDNY Comm. Div.:

A commonly recurring exchange between units in the field and the CO is as follows:

UNIT: "We'll be away from the rig; please give us our runs over the air"

DISP: "Have someone monitor the radio".

Well, DUHH! 

Does anyone suppose that a unit would ask to be notified by radio while NOT planning to have someone monitor?      This is just silly.


Some other messages are significant but so routine that they need their own 10-codes.

A few of them might be:

10-XX Unable to use MDT.

          Savings in air time:

          Now: We are now 10-8, the MDT won't take it.
          Then:    10-8,10-XX

10-XX  Reset your MDT

          Savings in air time:

          Now: Reset your MDT
          Then:  10-XX

Any ideas for more?

Oh yeah... open letter to units in the field...

Try resetting the MDT before asking for a ticket.  That seems to be the universal response from communications whenever you ask. 

 

[box8087]

very good idea

but keep in mind

there should be only one ten-code surrounded by other information used in a current transmission, I think they should not talk using ten-codes ONLY

for instance : 10-84, 10-12, 10-75      that's silly, right?!

and (for me)  I love the phrase

"E xxx we are 10-8 available", that sounds much better than the ten-code only "E xxx 10-8". It's killing air time for a second, but I like that. What do you think?

 

[bklyndisp54]

Very good points by box 8087!

Another frequent silly transmission made by chief officers is:

"Units will go 10-8 when they become available".

TRANSLATION:  The units will do what they're supposed to do!

;D

 

[box8087]

Thanx bklyndisp54, highly recommended....

Maybe they should create a newer/fresher ten-code for facts like "computer down", "not available on the screen", MDT/CIDS/etc. not transmitting....

For some unknown reason I like the outdated fire radio system of NYC so much, seems like good habits are hard to break. But we all live in high tech conditions and the classic ten-codes could be enriched with an additional useful code, why not?

 

[hfd 130]

Since 10-8 means available if you say for example

Engine 224 10-8 available

aren't you technically saying

Engine 224 available available

 

[bklyndisp54]

"10-8 available" is just partially redundant because it indicates "available-on the air" as opposed to 10-9, which would be available AQ.

I'd guess that a lot of the extra verbiage is a throwback to the pre ten-code days, but anyone who worked back then surely must be retired by now!

Ten codes were there when I started in 1970, but we were still knocking out the boxes on the bells, and only S.I. had voice alarm (plus the bells).  Does anyone else remember the units "tapping in (or out)" from the telegraph key at the housewatch desk?

 

[box8087]

fyi: the correct meaning and interpretation of the 10-8

# 10-08 Available on the air

    * CODE 1: Used by battalion chiefs when leaving a firehouse to which their fire tickets were redirected
    * CODE 2: Used by any unit when they are in service by radio, but not in their first alarm response area

# 10-09 Off the air/AQ/elsewhere

taken from www.fdnewyork.com or other reliable sources

but for me it's simple the meaning of        "we are available for another run"

 

[FD347]

Does anyone suppose that a unit would ask to be notified by radio while NOT planning to have someone monitor?

Much has changed in the last 20 years. When ever you hear said transmission do you not also hear us calling them later with a run and they're NOT listening? It's like babysitting. MDT's were supposed to reduce radio traffic but it just made it worse.

Units will go 10-8 when they become available

This idiotic phrase started recently. It replaced the seldom used 10-18. The phrase used to be "units will go 10-08 as they leave the scene", which makes more sense. (Even then, most boxes close out when the last unit hits 10-09 in quarters.)

 

[bklyndisp54]

Much has changed in the last 20 years.

When I started in Richmond back in 1970 we would announce the boxes on the VA and follow up with two rounds on the bells.  (The other four boros just got the bells) The units were not asked to inidividually acknowledge the runs.

When the order came down that we needed to extract a verbal "10-4" from each, we complained that we were becoming nursemaids, and that the units should be expected to exercise some responsbility and respond from the running boards on the wall like they had done for decades before.

It's now clear why the teachers wouldn't allow calculators in the classroom. They become crutches and the students later unable to function without them.

And where are we now?    "...did you get your run?"  "...are you responding to...?"

Progress? Bah.

 

[tbendick]

They could come up with some troubleshooting tips/FAQ?s.

There are a lot things they go over the air they don?t need to.  Such as combos, you can pull it up from the MDT without having to call the dispatcher.  Trying to reset the MDT first, how to reset the modem/MDT under the seat, etc.

SOC units are another big one with going over the air.  They are still operating at the box and they are using the handitalkie to go 10-8. 

 

[bklyndisp54]

Sounds like the SOC may have procured some "bootleg" HT's, as the typical FDNY HT freq's are in the 486MHz range, while the CO's are in the 154MHz range.  Mebbe they were issued both?

 

[FD347]

Maybe they were issued both?

The chiefs have 2, UHF and VHF. Why not SOC?

 

[aussiegeorge]

g'day all from sydney australia,we have the same silly radio messages down here example pumpXX code 4 and available returning to station,pumpXXcode 5 returned to station,isn't that why codes are used so all you have to say is the code and no need for any more infomation.

 

[e203BCVFD]

example: an all-hands fire in Long island City is burning, and companies from Brooklyn are assigned for relocation.....

"Engine 206 acting Engine 262 to Queens, on your frequency, relocating to Engine 262."

1: Obviously, if the dispatcher hears you, you must be on the appropriate frequency, and using
your permanent and temp company identity,, a unit is obviously relocating to SOME company's response area.

here's one i like: a 10-75 is transmitted at xxxx box, and a squad, and rescue are automatically assigned.

Dispatcher: "(Borough) to (Squad/Rescue) are you responding to box xxxx?"

Well yeah, considering thier ticket reads "to fill 10-75" and units acknowledge the "10-4"
on the MDT screen.

The "acknowledge FAST truck" could be made as a 10-code, along with some other common
messages:

10-xx - response delayed due to B.I. or A.F.I.D.
10-xx - FDNY apparatus in motor vehicle accident
10-xx - request for "mixer off" message
10-xx - call other agency via landline, i.e. "notify Housing we had to shut down the gas to
apartment # xxxx...."
10-xx - Battalion or Division chief acitvate Nextel phones to communicate with Fire Marshals,
Safety Battalion, etc.....

 

[fdny tfs disp]

example: an all-hands fire in Long island City is burning, and companies from Brooklyn are assigned for relocation.....

"Engine 206 acting Engine 262 to Queens, on your frequency, relocating to Engine 262."

1: Obviously, if the dispatcher hears you, you must be on the appropriate frequency, and using
your permanent and temp company identity,, a unit is obviously relocating to SOME company's response area.

COMPANIES TELL US THIS BECAUSE 1) IF IT IS VERY BUSY THE RADIO OUT DISP MAY NOT KNOW WHO THE RELOCATORS ARE AT THAT TIME, AND DISPATCHERS HAVE TO SAY XXXX ACTING XXXX, 2) HOW ELSE WOULD WE KNOW AN OUT OF BORO COMPANY IS ON ANOTHER BORO FREQ UNLESS THEY TELL US.

here's one i like: a 10-75 is transmitted at xxxx box, and a squad, and rescue are automatically assigned.

Dispatcher: "(Borough) to (Squad/Rescue) are you responding to box xxxx?"
IF YOU EVER SAW THE INSIDE OF A C/O YOU WOULD KNOW WHY THE DISP ASKS THAT QUESTION ITS B/C THEY DIDNT ACKNOWLEDGE THE TICKET YET AND THE DISP DONT ASSUME ANYONE IS GOING UNTIL IT IS ACKNOWLEDGE.

Well yeah, considering thier ticket reads "to fill 10-75" and units acknowledge the "10-4"
on the MDT screen.

The "acknowledge FAST truck" could be made as a 10-code, along with some other common
messages:

10-xx - response delayed due to B.I. or A.F.I.D.
10-xx - FDNY apparatus in motor vehicle accident
10-xx - request for "mixer off" message
10-xx - call other agency via landline, i.e. "notify Housing we had to shut down the gas to
apartment # xxxx...."
10-xx - Battalion or Division chief acitvate Nextel phones to communicate with Fire Marshals,
Safety Battalion, etc.....
AND SERIOUSLY DOES ANY OF THE ABOVE RELLY TAKE UP TO MUCH AIRTIME?????

 

[e203BCVFD]

you have to admit, the FAST truck as a 10-code would be clever, i.e. "10-14 engine"

 

[catry]

you have to admit, the FAST truck as a 10-code would be clever, i.e. "10-14 engine"

"Attention Battalion 1, Ladder 15 is your additional 10-15 truck" 

 

[e203BCVFD]

actually i was thinking "Manhattan to Ladder 15, you're the 10-xx"... etc, etc.

 

[fdny tfs disp]

you have to admit, the FAST truck as a 10-code would be clever, i.e. "10-14 engine"

NO IT WONT BE A CLEVER IDEA. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? ALL THE TRANSMISSIONS THAT GO OVER THE RADIO THAT ARE BS AND YOU WANT A SIGNAL FOR A FAST TRUCK. 

 

[e203BCVFD]

NO IT WONT BE A CLEVER IDEA. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? ALL THE TRANSMISSIONS THAT GO OVER THE RADIO THAT ARE BS AND YOU WANT A SIGNAL FOR A FAST TRUCK. 

Guy, you're missing the point here..... Communications could be streamlined a bit for common messages that go between units and the CO's.