7/7/26 Manhattan Collapse Box 790

Signal73

Signal73

Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
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Location: 235 East 42 St

Phone Alarm reporting bricks from the building.

CIDS:
Office Building 34 Story 75 X 100 Class 1
Interconnected with 219 East 42 St on Mezzanine on floors 8 & 9
Stair B is the Fire Tower
Access Stairs floors 5-6, 11-12. 15-16, 22-23
See Engineer for Pump Access

B-8 to MD we are getting reports that 2 columns buckled on the 21st floor

MD All Units Stage & East 42 & 3rd Ave

B-8 Start out the major technical response

B-8 we have L-2 Sq-18 & R-1 assessing the situation on the 21st & 22nd floor

R-4 & Sq-288 on your frequency

B-8 s/c a Battalion Chief

B-8 we have a 34 story 75 X 100 Under Construction. We have columns partially collapse on floors 21 & 22. We have floors sagging on floors 21-26

B-8 we are changing the staging to 2nd Ave & East 42nd St

B-8 You can transmit the All Hands on this @08:29

B-8 we are going to use the 38 story

FC per D-3 limited units are operating in the building. Operating on floors 21-26. DWH @08:45

FC per D-3 Searches are complete in the effected building. Evacuating surround buildings 225 & 231 East 42 St. DWH @08:56

FC s/c 2 additional truck companies @08:56

FC have 18 & 30 truck meet the 1-0 Battalion at East 43 & 2nd Ave

FC s/c 2 more trucks @09:05

FC s/c 2 more Truck Companies & 2 Battalion Chiefs @09:14

R-4 we are 10-8 going back to Queens @09:32

FC per Car-13A in 231-235 East 42 St searches are complete & negative. All workers are out of those buildings and accounted for. All members have been removed for the building. DWH @09:33

FC per Car-13A Still in the processes of evacuating building on East 43rd St. DWH @09:50

FC s/c a truck to relieve the Fast Truck @09:55

Sq-288 we are heading back to Queens @09:56

FC per Car-13A the following buildings have been evacuated:
815 2nd Ave,
212 East 43rd St
211 East 43rd St
231 East 43rd St
235 East 43rd St
231 East 42nd St
235 East 42nd St

FC we are in a holding pattern right now, waiting for DOB and the construction company to show up with shoring. Special call 2 Engines, 2 Trucks & 2 Battalion Chief for relief @10:42

FC change that just 1 Battalion Chief

FC assign Safety Battalion 1 & Car 2C to this box

FC at 13:00 Special 2 Engines, 3 Truck one which will be the Fast truck, & 1 Battalion Chief for relief @12:30

FC per Car-13A. Primaries complete & negative in 801 2nd Ave. NYPD has evacuated 220-240 East 40 St, 245 East 42 St & 245 East 41 St DWH @12:40

E-21,65,8,16,54
E-44 w/ 2nd Piece
L-2,7,4(Fast),3
L-30 Act. 2s/c,18 Act. 7s/c
L-24s/c,8Act. 24s/c
L-115 Act. 7s/c,21s/c
L-136 act. 2(Fast)s/c
L-25 w/ R.C 1
B-8,10s/c,6s/c,9s/c
R-1,4
Sq-18
Sq-288 w/ 2nd Piece
D-3
Rac-1
RB,SB-2,1
FC
Tac-1
CTU-1
HM-1
HMB
K9-01
Soc Logistics
Soc Compressor
Car-13A(DAC of Fire Prevention)
Car-11(Chief of SOC)
Car-11A(Chief of Rescue Ops)
Car-12(Chief of Safety & Inspectional Services Command)
Car-12A(Executive Officer-Chief of Safety Command)
Car-2C(Acting Deputy Commissioner Public Information)
Car-3(Chief of Department)
Car-23A(Press Duty Car)
Car-23D(Press Duty Car)

Relief
E-259 Act. 21,28 Act. 65
L-55 Act. 2,54 Act. 7
B-1 Act. 9

Relocations:
Squad 41 to Squad 18
Engine 259 Act. Engine 21
Engine 262 Act. Engine 16
Engine 28 act. Engine 65
Engine 91 Act. Engine 8
Ladder 8 Act. Ladder 4
Ladder 34 Act. Ladder 4
Ladder 30 Act. Ladder 2
Ladder 136 Act. Ladder 2
Ladder 55 Act. Ladder 2
Ladder 18 Act. Ladder 7
Ladder 115 Act. Ladder 7
Ladder 54 Act. Ladder 7
Ladder 146 Act. Ladder 7
Ladder 131 Act. Ladder 9
Ladder 109 Act. Ladder 24
Battalion 26 Act Battalion 8
Battalion 35 Act. Battalion 8
Battalion 1 Act. Battalion 9
Battalion 49 Act. Battalion 1
 
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Buckled columns with 10 stories above, and sagging floors from 22-26. I would hope those SOC brothers were quickly removed in favor of surviellance by drones instead. They moved staging back an additional block for safety, but had three companies with no actual engineering expertise inspecting floors? I'm looking at risk vs. reward and the lives of about 20 brothers being played with. Am I being overcautious?
 
seniorofficer said:
Buckled columns with 10 stories above, and sagging floors from 22-26. I would hope those SOC brothers were quickly removed in favor of surviellance by drones instead. They moved staging back an additional block for safety, but had three companies with no actual engineering expertise inspecting floors? I'm looking at risk vs. reward and the lives of about 20 brothers being played with. Am I being overcautious?
Click to expand...
1000%. Very low frequency. Very high risk.
 
seniorofficer said:
Buckled columns with 10 stories above, and sagging floors from 22-26. I would hope those SOC brothers were quickly removed in favor of surviellance by drones instead. They moved staging back an additional block for safety, but had three companies with no actual engineering expertise inspecting floors? I'm looking at risk vs. reward and the lives of about 20 brothers being played with. Am I being overcautious?
Click to expand...
Pardon my ignorance but does a drone flying inside a building give the same answers they’re looking for compared to humans inspecting? Generally curious. I think it sounds the same as a “surround and drown” operation of a vacant but in this case maybe brief inspections by SOC before seeing how serious this is was necessary? Either way, you’re more experienced than I would be and it makes for good discussion.
 
seniorofficer said:
Buckled columns with 10 stories above, and sagging floors from 22-26. I would hope those SOC brothers were quickly removed in favor of surviellance by drones instead. They moved staging back an additional block for safety, but had three companies with no actual engineering expertise inspecting floors? I'm looking at risk vs. reward and the lives of about 20 brothers being played with. Am I being overcautious?
Click to expand...
Drones can't do rapid interior searches or easily assess the intricacies of a building the way a person can. It's a big position to take to discredit the experience within the SOC companies and SOC chiefs that they can't make an assessment for their own safety or make a basic appraisal of the interior conditions for an engineer to review. They don't have an engineer inspecting the floors when they are crawling through a pancaked structure or tunnelling through rubble. The brothers volunteer to work in these companies knowing the risk it brings, that's why SOC exists.
 
FDNYSTATENISLAND said:
Pardon my ignorance but does a drone flying inside a building give the same answers they’re looking for compared to humans inspecting? Generally curious. I think it sounds the same as a “surround and drown” operation of a vacant but in this case maybe brief inspections by SOC before seeing how serious this is was necessary? Either way, you’re more experienced than I would be and it makes for good discussion.
Click to expand...
I think the initial use of drones would be better to evaluate whether or not it was safe enough to put even one member on those floors to evaluate the situation. Worst case scenario - I'd rather chance losing two or three $50,000 drones than ONE member if even a partial collapse would occur.
 
seniorofficer said:
I think the initial use of drones would be better to evaluate whether or not it was safe enough to put even one member on those floors to evaluate the situation. Worst case scenario - I'd rather chance losing two or three $50,000 drones than ONE member if even a partial collapse would occur.
Click to expand...
Drones are great, but what happens when it reaches a closed door?
 
Like everything, it's always a judgement call.

Of course these fire companies aren't engineers, but they are collapse experts. Furthermore, I would think a job this size would have the supervision of a structural engineer- likely already on site. The urgent tasks are a search for injured workers and to identify the failure mechanism.

It would be unlikely that a single point failure would produce a global collapse. NYC is in an offshore earthquake zone and I would assume design requirements take that into account. Computer modeling of building structural failure scenarios have been used for half a century.
 
This is a very interesting incident.

I know the FDNY is going to do its job and get people out and everyone is accounted for but in a post 9/11 world it just seems highly risky for them to operate in a skyscraper with sagging floors and buckled columns.

What is the protocol here? I know a lot of buildings are evacuated but what about the people who are going to shore up the building now?

Are they possibly just waiting for the building to collapse?
 
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