02/26/2013 Bronx All Hands Box 3338

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AuxWarYearsCapt

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Box # 3338

2405 Grand Ave

W  184 Street

5 Story  75 X 100

Kitchen Fire in Apt 4D

Exp.  1  Street
        2  Sim. Attached
        3  Unknown
        4  Sim. Attached   

10-75 By Batt 19

L 37 Fast
E 81 4th due
SQ 61
Res 3
BC 27
Div 7

0106 hrs  BC 19 using All Hands and X Engine & Truck requested
E 43
L 46

0113 hrs  BC 19 reports prim. searches neg in fire apt


 
Lone319Wolf said:
Box # 3338

2405 Grand Ave

W  184 Street

5 Story  75 X 100

Kitchen Fire in Apt 4D

Exp.  1  Street
        2  Sim. Attached
        3  Unknown
        4  Sim. Attached   

10-75 By Batt 19

L 37 Fast
E 81 4th due
SQ 61
Res 3
BC 27
Div 7

0106 hrs  BC 19 using All Hands and X Engine & Truck requested
E 43
L 46

0113 hrs  BC 19 reports prim. searches neg in fire apt
Click to expand...


Maybe..E-75,48,79,81,L-33,L-56
 
New Barb for 3338. E75,48,79,81  L33,56 L37F  Bn 19 D-7 Sq61 R-3 Bn 27 all hands
Extra E43 L46 Kitchen fire 4th floor apartment, 2 lines stretched 1 charged, nice first due job.
 
Has BARB changed the way the squads respond? Squad 61 responded to this E75 first due box but at Box 3193, another E75 first due box, the rundown showed Squad 41 responded. There're only about 3 blocks apart. 
 
Thanks, Mac, for the BARB assignments. A lot has changed. I noticed that at an earlier multiple alarmh at Walton Avenue and 184th Street, Engine 88 went in 4th due before 79, 46,42. Now 81goes to Grand Ave. Big changes under BARB. Now we have 3 standards to judge... G-Man's cards, STARFIRE, and BARB. Fun to match wits...let the arguments continue.
 
It seems that the new assignment for this box is incorrect.
The assignment should read:
75 - 48 - 43- 81
79 - 95 - 88 - 42
46

Reason - 43 has been first due at Fordham & Sedgwick (3316). Engines 81 & 95 have to pass that location to reach Grand Ave.
I used Google Maps to come up with the street distance.
75 = 0.8
48 = 0.9
43 = 1.0
81 = 1.3
79 = 1.4
95 = 1.4
88 = 1.6
42 = 1.7
46 = 2.2

Its interesting to see the distance because national standards is that an engine should cover about a mile & a half from their quarters. Here there are six engines within that distance.

I let 79 go in before 95 because 79 is traveling on flat roads while 95 has major traffic problem along the only route that they can travel within reason. A bridge to cross, an interchange with a interstate highway, a steep hill to climb. 79 mean while traveled from Bedford Park Blvd down Jerome Ave.

If you look at normal travel time 43 can arrive at the same travel time as 75 & will also beat out 48 by a minute.

This also indicated that 75's new fire house was placed in the wrong location. It should have been moved to a location north of 183 St. & not south. They are too close to 42 & 43.
 
Atlas the BARB is what was found on FDNY intranet so that is the correct assignment E75,48,79,81, however if you are in a position to change things many people on this site could give you plenty of work. The BARB is not exact as the map distances you quote are assuming routes taken, for instance E-81 can go up kingsbridge road to university ave then into fordham up to grand and i am sure other units who know there response areas take different routes. As i have said to others go to a friendly firehouse and ask to see the BARB assignments that have been put in place and FYI it includes Manhattan now.

Also route up picked for E81 was 1.33 miles using the route i mentioned goes to 1.26 miles
 
Mac - I just reran the mapping program again & I find that if Engine 81 goes by way of Bailey Ave the mileage is 1.3 miles / travel time for a regular vehicle should be 5 minutes. If you went via Kingsbridge Rd & University Ave. its a shorter route of 1.2 / 5 minutes. Next route was Kingsbridge Rd to Sedgwick Ave is 1.5 miles / 6 minutes.

Looking at Engine 43 if they use Sedgwick Ave to Fordham Rd - mileage is 1.1 miles with 4 minutes travel time, now if they use Burnside Ave to University Ave to Fordham Rd their mileage is 1.1 miles with a travel time of 3 minutes.

Looking at both units responding to box 3316 - Fordham Rd & Sedgwick Ave - 81 figures are 1.0 miles with a three minute travel time. Engine 43 is 0.8 miles with a 2 minute travel time.  75 was first due at this box for years & it should have been 43. After a good number of years, it was changed to 43 prior to 75 moving to their new quarters.

Years back - pre-computer each assignment card was hand drawn with the alarm assignment personnel checking each company for each box.  The alarm assignment staff would call & talk with a regular assigned MPO to obtain their major response routes. However in the Bronx there was a policy of holding back on using fire companies from the 'annex areas'. This was an unwritten policy that goes back to when Westchester gave up the East Bronx & the North Bronx to NYC. It was a carry over for a good number of years. Back then they used the term "key companies" & 81 & 46 were used to locate to 75 & 33 among other quarters. There really was no fire work in your area back then. Over the years the work load spread to where both your quarters & 79 & 37 became busy units.  Look today at the 15th Batt area! There are busy, but at one time those companies were used to do allot of relocations.  Today, the dispatchers taken South Bronx companies to fill the 15th Battalion area.

I do not know what data was provided to the private contractor who did the alarm assignment work. But please take the time out to look at box 3316 & see what that assignment is & let me know. If it is not correct, maybe I can do something to get the problem corrected or even to attempt to find out how they figured out the responses. I do know that over the years that certain limitations were placed on companies in order to reduce their work loads. I do not know if this policy is in effect today. Thanks for your concern & I'll be waiting for your reply.
 
I will check 3316 when i go into work, we were 3rd due but now i think we are 4th due in new barb, E95 comes ahead of us now. But i will recheck to make sure, i know we lost all boxes on fordham rd from university to deegan went from 3rd to 4th due crazy but true. As for the old years yes 81 was a second section of 75 which was crazy but it got a company quickly into 75 response area and many times 81 did get work while relocated, today we usually dont go to 75 we end up at fire as 81, another frequent relocate used to be 63 for 81 and after much discussion 81 is not going to 63 as often usually only when 63 goes oos for repairs, 81 has a quick response up to that area and is better used as add'l unit to fire then relocating.
 
What allot of people are not aware of,  yesterday - years ago - pre-computer - if the following companies were out - 42, 43, 48, & 75. All you had to do was cover 75. When Start-fire came in service the relocation policy was changed. Now if those same four companies were out of service lets say your first covered 43, you would have to cover 75. If you did not want to cover 75, may be the fire is right across the street from quarters, you would be forced to cover 43, 42, & 48. Why they all respond with 75 - first & second due. 42 & 43 also respond            together.
 
Atlas here is box you requested plus a few nearby
Assignment for box 3316 Sedgwick and Fordham E43,75,95,81 L59,33 
3315 Fordham and Hampden Pl  E43,95,75,81  L59,36
3187 Deegan and Fordham above highway E43,95,75,81 L59,36
4784 Cedar and Fordham E43,95,75,81 L59,36
 
So that everyone understands what is going on here, Mac took the time out to check the responses to four boxes that are located along West Fordham Rd. between I-87 (Major Deegan Expwy) to Sedgwick Ave. Total distance between the eastern point (Sedgwick Ave) to the western point (I-87) is 2/10 of a mile. Without any delays the suggested travel time is 55 seconds.

West Fordham Rd is a wide street with two way traffic that can be considered to be 6 traffic lanes wide ? at one time there was parking on both sides of the street permitting two lanes for traffic movement in each direction. This might look like a simple project, but from the eastern point to the western point the street curves & drops several hundred feet (about 150 to 300 feet).

To the west of I-87, known in the city as the Major Deegan Expwy, an extension of the NYS Thruway, is the Harlem River. In order to reach these locations Engine 95 has to cross the University Heights Bridge. Some call it the 207th Street Bridge since Fordham Rd turns into West 207 St upon crossing the span.  This area can be highly congested most of the times.

Going from the west to the east the street are:
Major Deegan ? then 230 feet away with a travel time of 8 seconds is Cedar Ave.
From Cedar Ave Hampton Pl is only 0.1 miles with a travel time of 37 seconds.
From Hampton Pl. to Sedgwick Ave one would travel 0.1 of a mile with a travel time of 19 seconds. (This is all computer generated information.) 

Normally, in NYC fire boxes are every two blocks. In this area, FDNY did not follow that policy. Box 4784 was established in the late 60's or early 70's.  If you stand at Sedgwick Ave, you can not  see the intersection over the Major Deegan Expwy.

Now for the findings along West Fordham Rd : (Distance/Travel Time)

Box 3187 @ the Major Deegan Expwy.  BARD ? 43    95    75  81
should be 43(0.6/2) ? 95(0.7/4) -  81(1.2/4) -75(1.3/6)

Box 4787 @ Cedar Ave.  BARD ? 43  95  75  81 
should be 43(0.6/2) - 95(0.8/4) ? 81(1.2/4) -75(1.2/6)

Box 3315 @ Hampton Pl. BARD ? 43  95  75  81
Should be 43(0.7/2) ? 95(0.8/4) ? 81(1.1/4) ? 75(1.2/5)

Box 3316 @ Sedgwick Ave. BARD ? 43  75  95  81
Should be 43(0.7/2) ? 81(1.0/3) - 95(1.0/5) ? 75(1.1/4)

Please note that the time & distance for 43 to boxes 3315 & 3316 show the same ? the computer changed the route.  Also Engine 48 came in 5th due with 0.1 miles & 1 minute behind Engine 75.

After reviewing these boxes, I would like to find out more about this system. Are they looking at distance, or travel time, or created their own formula  to come up with their findings. Is work load looked at? Or as the Rand Corp did back in the 60's & 70's place a cost factor formula on each assignment. One would have to look at additional boxes before figuring out what they did.

Remember, in being honest, you have to see what data the private company was provided with for them to come up with these assignments. Also for the lost of boxes on Fordham Rd heading east, Engine 48 comes into the picture. There were many years that 81 never came to Fordham Rd. or ended 4th due or pre-increase on 1st alarm assignment - 81 was a second alarm company into that area. You have to be careful because there have been numerous changes made over the years. In areas surrounding your station only two engines were assigned on the first alarm. Over the years that was increased & then FDNY decided to standardize all responses citywide to the same level.  Again, thanks Mac for the info. 
 
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