10-75 vs All Hands

[billyfromhill]

Is a 10-75 the same as an all hands? Is the all hands signal transmitted first and then the 10-75? I see that the division chief is now added on the all hands so that would seem to imply that the 10-75 comes after the all hands.

 

[68jk09]

10-75 is a preliminary signal to get a possible working Fire or Emergency response including 4 ENGs 2 LADs for FF & 1 LAD as FAST (FF Assist & Search Team) plus 2 BNs...a Rescue a Squad & the assigned DC ....if they are used then a 75 (All Hands) is transmitted with possibly a special call for another ENG & LAD ...after that if needed then a Second Alarm would be transmitted generally.

 

[BoroCall]

Is a 10-75 the same as an all hands? Is the all hands signal transmitted first and then the 10-75? I see that the division chief is now added on the all hands so that would seem to imply that the 10-75 comes after the all hands.

The first arriving Co. on the box transmits the 10-75, which is a request (usually URGENT) for a FULL 1st Alarm assignment.  It is when the entire FULL 1st Alarm assingment is put to work that the Chief in charge transmits the "ALL HANDS".  Depending on the location of the Dep. Chief (Division Chief) he/she my very well arrive after the "ALL Hands" has been transmitted.

But in any case the 10-75 comes before the "ALL HANDS".  There are a few exceptions - if the dispatcher announces that he is giving a FULL 1st Alarm Assignment due to calls, then you may here the term - "ALL HANDS ON ARRIVAL, but even then there is a good chance that whatever company arrives would still transmit the 10-75.

 

[BoroCall]

Is a 10-75 the same as an all hands? Is the all hands signal transmitted first and then the 10-75? I see that the division chief is now added on the all hands so that would seem to imply that the 10-75 comes after the all hands.

Here, take a look at the following - there have been a few revisions to date.

FDNY Dispatch Policy

http://www.fdnewyork.com/aa.asp

 

[t123ken]

An all-hands is, at the least, three engines (or two engines and a squad), two ladders and a battalion chief working.  There are plenty of all hands where no 10-75 was given.
It's impossible to say what the maximum is for an all-hands.
For example, a 10-76 with all responding units put to work is still just an all-hands, right?

 

[mikeindabronx]

I have noticed lately that some Dispatchers are transmitting the All Hands on a
request for an extra E&T

 

[Joeyengine]

When the 10-75 is transmitted a 4th engine is assigned PLUS a squad a rescue  additional battalion cheif  deptuy cheif  a Fast truck... if a squad is on the orignal assignment..an additional squad  is assigned as a Squad..if the cheif requires additional units then he can request and additional engine and truck..that would make 5 engines total..if there is a need for more then a 2nd alarm has to be transmitted..the cheif on scene can request as many trucks as he wants without the transmissiin of an additional alarm

 

[UnitWithTheUrgent]

I have noticed lately that some Dispatchers are transmitting the All Hands on a
request for an extra E&T

Nowadays some dispatchers will add the extra E&T when the CIDS indicates w/b etc. and then immediately transmit the All Hands.

 

[BoroCall]

An all-hands is, at the least, three engines (or two engines and a squad), two ladders and a battalion chief working.  There are plenty of all hands where no 10-75 was given.
It's impossible to say what the maximum is for an all-hands.
For example, a 10-76 with all responding units put to work is still just an all-hands, right?

Nope!  A 10-76 is a special code for a fire is a residential high-rise, just as a 10-77 is for a commercial high-rise.  More units are assigned on a 10-76 & 10-77 then are assigned on a 10-75.

 

[BoroCall]

I have noticed lately that some Dispatchers are transmitting the All Hands on a
request for an extra E&T

In the old days that would be a Dispather's "All Hands", just like a Dispatchers 2nd or 3rd alarm as a result of numerous special calls.

 

[BoroCall]

When the 10-75 is transmitted a 4th engine is assigned PLUS a squad a rescue  additional battalion cheif  deptuy cheif  a Fast truck... if a squad is on the orignal assignment..an additional squad  is assigned as a Squad..if the cheif requires additional units then he can request and additional engine and truck..that would make 5 engines total..if there is a need for more then a 2nd alarm has to be transmitted..the cheif on scene can request as many trucks as he wants without the transmissiin of an additional alarm

Except that additional Tower Ladders require additional engines for water supply.

 

[turk132]

An all-hands is, at the least, three engines (or two engines and a squad), two ladders and a battalion chief working.  There are plenty of all hands where no 10-75 was given.
It's impossible to say what the maximum is for an all-hands.
For example, a 10-76 with all responding units put to work is still just an all-hands, right?

Nope!  A 10-76 is a special code for a fire is a residential high-rise, just as a 10-77 is for a commercial high-rise.  More units are assigned on a 10-76 & 10-77 then are assigned on a 10-75.

Other way around, 76 commercial, 77 residential

 

[BoroCall]

An all-hands is, at the least, three engines (or two engines and a squad), two ladders and a battalion chief working.  There are plenty of all hands where no 10-75 was given.
It's impossible to say what the maximum is for an all-hands.
For example, a 10-76 with all responding units put to work is still just an all-hands, right?

Nope!  A 10-76 is a special code for a fire is a residential high-rise, just as a 10-77 is for a commercial high-rise.  More units are assigned on a 10-76 & 10-77 then are assigned on a 10-75.

Other way around, 76 commercial, 77 residential

Opps!!!  Yes, quite right - silly me!

 

[BoroCall]

An all-hands is, at the least, three engines (or two engines and a squad), two ladders and a battalion chief working.  There are plenty of all hands where no 10-75 was given.
It's impossible to say what the maximum is for an all-hands.
For example, a 10-76 with all responding units put to work is still just an all-hands, right?

Nope!  A 10-76 is a special code for a fire is a residential high-rise, just as a 10-77 is for a commercial high-rise.  More units are assigned on a 10-76 & 10-77 then are assigned on a 10-75.

Other way around, 76 commercial, 77 residential

Opps!!  Yes, quite right - silly me!

 

[STAjo]

I have noticed lately that some Dispatchers are transmitting the All Hands on a
request for an extra E&T

Nowadays some dispatchers will add the extra E&T when the CIDS indicates w/b etc. and then immediately transmit the All Hands.

I believe it's implied that If an Extra E & T are needed; Then AH are Operating

 

[811]

Never remember any reference to a "Dispatcher's All Hands".

Communication Manual c1961, section 1.13.2 reads:
"In the event engine and ladder companies assigned on second or greater alarm are not in service, dispatcher shall provide required number by special call or greater alarm."

So, is a Chief ordered a second alarm [or greater], and there were not enough units available, dispatcher could transmit next higher alarm "Dispatcher's Third Alarm" etc.  Therefore, there was no such thing as a Dispatcher's Second Alarm.  This practice was discontinued c1980.  Don't know of any possible changes in this policy in the last 20 years or so.

Also around 1980, a directive that if a Chief tried special called numerous companies over an all-hands or greater alarm assignment (a process called "nickel and dime-ing"), the dispatcher was to notify the chief that any further companies would require the transmission of a greater alarm.

 

[FDNY Response Videos]

At Sunday?s 4th Alarm on Nagle Avenue Manhattan Dispatch gave the all hands:

B-13: ?We have an advanced fire on arrival, give me an extra engine and extra truck, let me know who my fast truck is.?

Manhattan gives the identity of the FAST truck and 4th due engine and then proceeds to transmit the all-hands

Manhattan: ?Manhattan announcing all-hands going to work for box 1785, 150 Nagle Avenue, between Thayer st and Fort George Hill, for a fire in a taxpayer?

I?ve heard this happen pretty often recently, for example the 3rd alarm at Box 1192 the day before and some other 10-75s where the chief needs additional units. I?m not familiar with what has been the policy in the past, but from what I?m reading this seems to be a new trend, is it possible that the dispatch policy was updated?

 

[811]

Maybe there are no rules anymore; I'm just reporting the way it was...

 

[manlt]

If the 10-75 is given and chief is asking for above that assignment, it is taken that "all hands are being used".  Definition in communication manual for all hands is 3 engines and 2 trucks going to work.  10-75, 4 engines, 2 trucks, Fast truck, Rescue and Squad.  Go extra 1 & 1 above, equal 5 engines and 3 trucks (not counting fast truck), safe to give the all hands.
"New" procedure also, if dispatcher is loading the box, it is the full 10-75 assignment minus the deputy.  This was done so that their was uniformity.  No 10-75 has been given, but if you are the 4th engine or fast truck, your ticket says fill 10-75 due to computer.  Someone still has to transmit it.
Also, probably in Dispatchers Directives, if "all hands" is given without 10-75, dispatcher will give balance of 10-75 assignment (or ask if needed), unless the probably will hold is given with the all hands.

 

[BoroCall]

I have noticed lately that some Dispatchers are transmitting the All Hands on a
request for an extra E&T

Nowadays some dispatchers will add the extra E&T when the CIDS indicates w/b etc. and then immediately transmit the All Hands.

I believe it's implied that If an Extra E & T are needed; Then AH are Operating

I have heard dispatchers ask the B or D if their using AH, after the add 1&1 are requested.
Also, when numerous calls are received, the dispatcher give the extra 1&1 only to be returned by the B or D.  A mattress fire in a stairwell can cause this.