3/12/2014 10-60 5th Alarm Manhattan Box 1406

I remember seeing a picture of a fire in Brooklyn from the 30s or 40s an it showed a Con Ed or BUG truck with a siren on the fender.
 
nfd2004 said:
Although not a gas leak, I am reminded of a propane leak from a tank in Buffalo, NY sometime in the 80s. The fire department showed up and there was an explosion. I believe Six Firefighters were killed in that incident.
Click to expand...

December 27, 1983.  It was a warehouse that got filled with propane when a forklift hit and sheared off a regulator valve on an illegal 500 lb. propane tank.  The warehouse filled with propane, and about 30 seconds after the chief got on the scene, the whole 4 story warehouse blew.  The force of the blast lifted Ladder 5 and tossed it about 30 feet.  5 Buffalo firefighters and 2 civilians were killed; 19 firefighters and 150 civilians were injured.
 
In January of this year there was a gas explosion in a house in Staten Island, if I recall correctly there was a brother hurt in this incident when the homeowner switched the light on to the basement when they were going downstairs.  Anyone recall this?
 
All of This is eerily reminiscent (to This NY'er anyway...), of the Kitty Genoveese
Murder in Queens, back in the late 60's [67 - 69?]... Dozens of Witnesses later stated that they 
they were sure 'Someone Else' would call the Police.
(The Gas Odor Calls have been coming in Fast & furious in the past 48 hrs.)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/killing-kitty-genovese-47-years-holds-sway-new-yorkers-article-1.123912

In this day of Hand-held 'Gas-Wands' (Detectors), I Take Issue with the Comment ' we don't know what the hell we are doing. ' I'm hoping that's an Old Line.
Even I Know ya' go into 'Surrounding Properties' w/ Detectors & Survey for Leaks.

Back in 'The Olde Days' [1985-90], in Sty-Town, We used to Check for Possible Leaks w/
The Oldest, Low-Tech Gas-Detector known to Mankind (below the eyes & above the mouth...).
Of Course, we had a Full Staff of On-Call Maintenance Workers on-hand if need be... .

As for our Continuing Crumbling Infrastructure; a Condition of this Magnitude calls for a
National, Regional, State,  and Local Combined Effort, Prioritizing the Emergency, and the
inherit Danger this presents to the Public Safety and Well-being of the Citizenry.

We'll have to see How All That Plays-Out during the next few Weeks & Months & Years.
God Help Us All.  ;)


 
mack said:
Frank - I know you are the gas expert and I appreciate the fact that most of these are nuisance responses.  We had two odor of gas runs the last night tour I worked.

But this seems to be a growing issue for the future.  Aren't serious gas-related incidents going to increase?  A lot of these gas lines in older cities were installed in 1880-1900.  They are only going to deteriorate.

If policies  change, by national standard or by political pressure, and if there are 50,000 more responses in NYC to check out gas leaks each year, maybe that would support more engine and truck companies.
Click to expand...
Joe, even though the main in question here dates to 1890, it is made of cast iron. Cast iron is a good choice for mains both gas and water due to the fact that it does not corrode. It is still widely used for water mains though in the gas business it has been replaced by polyethelene (plastic). Manhattan and the Bronx are basically low pressure systems that are in cast iron mains. Queens and Westchester are predominately high pressure systems in steel mains. The life span of a steel main is considerately less than that of cast iron. Some of the older areas in Westchester are low pressure cast iron in Yonkers, Mt Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains and Peekskill. That being said, the PSC mandates an amount of mileage of cast iron to be replaced every year. Yes it would be great to replace all these older mains at once but it is unfortunately economically not possible.  But no matter what material is used for the main, they all have their own inherent issues. From what I have heard about the incident in Manhattan, the gas main was undermined by a water condition. I am not making light of the loss of life here in this incident but I do feel if it had been reported when first detected, this incident would not have happened. Yes Con Ed will face all the lawsuits but the people including the pastor of that church who stated they smelled strong gas odors won't be held accountable for their negligence in not reporting it.
 
lucky said:
I remember seeing a picture of a fire in Brooklyn from the 30s or 40s an it showed a Con Ed or BUG truck with a siren on the fender.
Click to expand...
Brooklyn would have been BUG. In the early days of lighting before electricity, there was gas lighting with gas flowing through wooden mains before cast iron came into use. The predecessors of Con Ed would respond to gas fires (and there were many) to extinguish them. They responded in horse drawn red wagons that had bells as did the fire apparatus of that time. The tradition continued into Con Ed and into motorized vehicles to respond in emergency mode to gas fed fires. As wooden mains were replaced by cast iron and as electricity replaced gas lighting, the need for these fire fighting red wagons was eliminated though the traditional red wagon continues to this day now as splicers who respond to electric emergencies and manhole fires though no longer in an emergency response mode. NYC and Westchester will not issue permits for lights and sirens, only for parkway permits so commercial plated emergency dept vehicles can use the parkways.
 
To get on the 10-60 subject ( Sorry for being that guy )

@16:47 MCC1 S/c an engine to pick up the hose. E-22 s/c
@17:45 Tac-2 is still opperating
 
Bullhorns, the gas fed explosion on SI occurred on 1/29/14. Topic is posted under date.
I believe that was an All-Hands, 10-70 was also transmitted. Gas was smelt on block for days afterward, and I read an article on SILive.com just yesterday regarding the concern of gas on that block still- especially after this MAN explosion. Homes in the Dougan Hills block were evacuated.
 
STAjo said:
All of This is eerily reminiscent (to This NY'er anyway...), of the Kitty Genoveese
Murder in Queens, back in the late 60's [67 - 69?]... Dozens of Witnesses later stated that they 
they were sure 'Someone Else' would call the Police.
(The Gas Odor Calls have been coming in Fast & furious in the past 48 hrs.)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/killing-kitty-genovese-47-years-holds-sway-new-yorkers-article-1.123912

In this day of Hand-held 'Gas-Wands' (Detectors), I Take Issue with the Comment ' we don't know what the hell we are doing. ' I'm hoping that's an Old Line.
Even I Know ya' go into 'Surrounding Properties' w/ Detectors & Survey for Leaks.

Back in 'The Olde Days' [1985-90], in Sty-Town, We used to Check for Possible Leaks w/
The Oldest, Low-Tech Gas-Detector known to Mankind (below the eyes & above the mouth...).
Of Course, we had a Full Staff of On-Call Maintenance Workers on-hand if need be... .

As for our Continuing Crumbling Infrastructure; a Condition of this Magnitude calls for a
National, Regional, State,  and Local Combined Effort, Prioritizing the Emergency, and the
inherit Danger this presents to the Public Safety and Well-being of the Citizenry.

We'll have to see How All That Plays-Out during the next few Weeks & Months & Years.
God Help Us All.  ;)
Click to expand...
Stajo, that statement was made to me by a veteran Bronx battalion chief probably 15-20 years ago. These "gas wands" or trackers as they are called are not combustible gas indicators. Even the soap solution we use to detect leaks sets them off as does car exhaust and dead roaches. I my earlier days in Con Ed, many a veteran gas man carried a torch to detect gas leaks in apt bldg bsmts and meter banks. It worked better than soap water and the nose. Yes the leaks are coming in fast and furious since Wednesday from people who have been "meaning to call this in" or who have been "smelling this for a while." Something positive. I agree about our crumbling infrastructure. Politicians will be the first to point fingers at Con Ed for our old infrastructure but will hide under the bed when their own is mentioned. And in a week to ten days, the surge will calm dowm.
 
Signal73 said:
To get on the 10-60 subject ( Sorry for being that guy )

@16:47 MCC1 S/c an engine to pick up the hose. E-22 s/c
Click to expand...
Apologies if I hijacked the thread.
 
Signal73 said:
No appology needed great info
Click to expand...

TY, Frank. & Now that ya' mention it, i do recall seeing 'Gas-Guys' carrying Torches into Basements.

Oh, Also: We heard a Gas-Odor Run in BKLYN earlier where the Caller stated' She smelled the Odor
in September.' {!}
 
Museborn said:
nfd2004 said:
Although not a gas leak, I am reminded of a propane leak from a tank in Buffalo, NY sometime in the 80s. The fire department showed up and there was an explosion. I believe Six Firefighters were killed in that incident.
Click to expand...

December 27, 1983.  It was a warehouse that got filled with propane when a forklift hit and sheared off a regulator valve on an illegal 500 lb. propane tank.  The warehouse filled with propane, and about 30 seconds after the chief got on the scene, the whole 4 story warehouse blew.  The force of the blast lifted Ladder 5 and tossed it about 30 feet.  5 Buffalo firefighters and 2 civilians were killed; 19 firefighters and 150 civilians were injured.
Click to expand...
Two of the injured in the Buffalo incident were actually Brothers ...one a BC & one a DC one had wood lodged in his neck.....they both came back to duty & through the years made several trips to visit the FDNY.....real nice guys........i was in R*2 the day of the 18th Ave propane explosion which killed several & destroyed several bldgs.....20 lb propane cylinders being illegally brought into the basement of a plumbing supply when one was dropped down the stairs breaking off the neck & causing the explosion & Fire further fueled by other tanks....some of those killed we found on the sidewalk just passerbys in the wrong place (continued RIP).....an extremely hot all day operation saw some pictures on someones post not to long ago.........PS as far as the increase in gas odor responses ....this is traditional after a major incident ....it will peak then go back to the previous level.
 
fdce54 said:
lucky said:
I remember seeing a picture of a fire in Brooklyn from the 30s or 40s an it showed a Con Ed or BUG truck with a siren on the fender.
Click to expand...
Brooklyn would have been BUG. In the early days of lighting before electricity, there was gas lighting with gas flowing through wooden mains before cast iron came into use. The predecessors of Con Ed would respond to gas fires (and there were many) to extinguish them. They responded in horse drawn red wagons that had bells as did the fire apparatus of that time. The tradition continued into Con Ed and into motorized vehicles to respond in emergency mode to gas fed fires. As wooden mains were replaced by cast iron and as electricity replaced gas lighting, the need for these fire fighting red wagons was eliminated though the traditional red wagon continues to this day now as splicers who respond to electric emergencies and manhole fires though no longer in an emergency response mode. NYC and Westchester will not issue permits for lights and sirens, only for parkway permits so commercial plated emergency dept vehicles can use the parkways.
Click to expand...

Great history on the red ConEd trucks, Thanx!
 
Signal73 said:
@16:47 MCC1 S/c an engine to pick up the hose. E-22 s/c
@17:45 Tac-2 is still opperating
Click to expand...

@18:52 E-60 is responding to the 10-60 location
@18:57 Park Ave & East 115 for an ordor of Gas E76 & L22 responding
@22:07 Relief Companies being assigned
 
STAjo said:
As for our Continuing Crumbling Infrastructure; a Condition of this Magnitude calls for a
National, Regional, State,  and Local Combined Effort, Prioritizing the Emergency, and the
inherit Danger this presents to the Public Safety and Well-being of the Citizenry.
Click to expand...
We all certainly agree that this is a major issue however in this case the infrastructure belongs to a private corporation instead of a government entity.  This places the responsibility for any work that is required firmly on the shoulders of that private company, not the government and taxpayers.  Possibly the PSC will change some of their requirements and require replacement to occur sooner but the public won't end up paying for it.  The public has enough things to pay for just trying to maintain and upgrade bridges and highways!  ::)
 
Roofman26 said:
In regards to a signal 10-60. What is the difference between a Code 1 and a Code 2?
Click to expand...
There's probably someone out there who is more capable of explaining this than I am, but I'll give it a shot.

The main difference between a 10-60: Code 1 and a 10-60: Code 2 is that a Code 1 adds several additional Rescue, Haz-Mat., and S.O.C. Units to the standard 10-60 response for a Major Emergency, as stated below. A Code 2 is for large-scale major incidents and adds almost another whole 10-60 assignment on top of the Code 1/No Code, if that makes any sense.

A 10-60 (10-60: No Code) is defined as a "Major Emergency Response", bringing initially 5 Engines, 4 Ladders(1 F.A.S.T.), 4 Battalion Chiefs, Rescue Battalion, Safety Battalion, 1 Deputy Chief, a Rescue Task Force, 1 T.S.U., 1 Comm. Tac. Unit, the Field Comm. Unit, and 1 R.A.C. Unit. This is the standard 10-60: No Code response assignment.

A 10-60: Code 1 is defined as a "Major Emergency Response that requires enhanced rescue resources". A 10-60: Code 1 brings the standard No Code response assignment, plus an additional Battalion Chief, an additional Rescue Task Force, Haz-Mat. 1, the Haz-Mat. Battalion, a Haz-Tec. Engine, the S.O.C. Logistics Unit, the S.O.C. Compressor Unit, and a ConEd Vacuum Truck.

A 10-60: Code 2 is defined as a "Major Emergency Response that requires enhanced rescue resources for a large-scale incident". A 10-60: Code 2 brings a 10-60: Code 1 response assignment, plus 5 additional Engines, 3 additional Ladders, 1 additional Battalion Chief, 1 additional Deputy Chief, an Air Recon. Chief, a Planning Section Chief, an additional Haz-Tec. Engine, a Satellite Unit, the Haz-Mat. Decon. Support Unit, the S.O.C. Dewatering Unit, and the Mobile Command Unit.
 
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