4/10/26 Queens 5th Alarm Box 4553

Skyler Fire said:
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Super Pumper 1 & SAT 4 operated today… this will now be considered the first fire the super pumper operated at. I will have a video of it in the coming days. SP was supplied by 2 Engines off 2 different mains got around 4,800gpm off the main deck gun. Max on the main deck gun is 8k and then plus 2 rear monitors they do 2k each so total max would be 12k… still would need another 2 more engines off other mains or the Pumps and Marine unit to get full pressure but still was going 200 feet across the fire building.
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Appreciate the quality of your work. Never saw the original at work so looking forward to your presentation on this.
 
seniorofficer said:
For that matter, since the unit falls with the $1 million dollar range, wouldn't it have been more prudent to purchase two Seagrave high a capacity pumpers and outfit them as foam units, one at LGA and one at JFK? The could have stores them behind E.316 and E.314. That's a long run to JFK right now and precious time wasted from their present location. JMO

Also, one block east of the fire bldg. is a lagoon that used to be the runway of the old Speed's Airport. The SP could have done them a favor and sucked it dry.
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That is intended as a natural wetland. The water isn't real deep, and would be dried in no time. I had walked through there in the early 1990s before it was set aside and the water then was up to my knees, and there were still hangars standing then.
 
80sQueensbuff said:
That is intended as a natural wetland. The water isn't real deep, and would be dried in no time. I had walked through there in the early 1990s before it was set aside and the water then was up to my knees, and there were still hangars standing then.
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I thought so , it really did not look like much.
 


**{ EXCLUSIE VIDEO }**~**{ FDNY BOX 4553 ~ QUEENS }**~**{ **FDNY SUPER PUMPER 1 AND FDNY SATELLITE 4** OPERATING AT FDNY 5TH ALARM BOX 4553 WAREHOUSE FIRE AND CONDUCTING TRAINING EXERCISES AT THE SAME TIME. THIS IS NOW KNOWN TO BE THE VERY FIRST TIME THE FDNY USED FDNY SUPER PUMPER 1 AT A MAJOR FIRE SCENE }**…..
 

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THEMAJESTIRIUM1 said:


**{ EXCLUSIE VIDEO }**~**{ FDNY BOX 4553 ~ QUEENS }**~**{ **FDNY SUPER PUMPER 1 AND FDNY SATELLITE 4** OPERATING AT FDNY 5TH ALARM BOX 4553 WAREHOUSE FIRE AND CONDUCTING TRAINING EXERCISES AT THE SAME TIME. THIS IS NOW KNOWN TO BE THE VERY FIRST TIME THE FDNY USED FDNY SUPER PUMPER 1 AT A MAJOR FIRE SCENE }**…..
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Nice work Skyler. Had me sitting here doing friction loss calculations. So my question is this Standard Large Diameter Hose (LDH) has a maximum Working Pressure of 185pi. Can be pushed to 200 psi. You can buy LDH with max working pressures of 300 or even more. Many of the high volume industrial pumpers use such hose. In order to get 4500GPM through two 6" lines at 1100 and 1600 feet respectively you are easily going over 200 psi in each line. So here is my question. Does anyone know the max working pressure of the 6" LDH carried on Satellites and Super Pumper?. Thanks in advance and thanks again for the great coverage of this drill.
 
Capttomo said:
Nice work Skyler. Had me sitting here doing friction loss calculations. So my question is this Standard Large Diameter Hose (LDH) has a maximum Working Pressure of 185pi. Can be pushed to 200 psi. You can buy LDH with max working pressures of 300 or even more. Many of the high volume industrial pumpers use such hose. In order to get 4500GPM through two 6" lines at 1100 and 1600 feet respectively you are easily going over 200 psi in each line. So here is my question. Does anyone know the max working pressure of the 6" LDH carried on Satellites and Super Pumper?. Thanks in advance and thanks again for the great coverage of this drill.
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Just doing some internet sleuthing, I'm thinking that they use Key Pro Flo. Main reason is, that Key Industrial ldh doesn't come in yellow, only red and black and the other ldhs either come up to 5 inch or no yellow. Could possibly be an equivalent from Snap tite or similar. Service pressure would be up to 225 psi.

For 6 inch Key ldh, (from their site) the Pro Flo fl is 2-3 psi per 100 feet at 1000 gpm. So 1 engine would be at 33 psi fl, the other at 48 psi. Say 4 for 2000 gpm. 44 psi and 64. Dp( discharge pressure) would be in the 125ish and 145ish for 80 psi supply pressure. The 2 other things to consider is that the average pump delivers its max capacity at 150 psi. Even in volume which is where i assume theyd be pumping in. If i remember correctly, and this is for the average pumps not the high pressure pumps. Over that and performance drops off quick. I think like at 200 psi its 75% , and at 250 psi its 50% rated capacity.The other is the max flow of a given hose. You can only move so much water thru a hose or pipe before it becomes inefficient.
 
RCL said:
Just doing some internet sleuthing, I'm thinking that they use Key Pro Flo. Main reason is, that Key Industrial ldh doesn't come in yellow, only red and black and the other ldhs either come up to 5 inch or no yellow. Could possibly be an equivalent from Snap tite or similar. Service pressure would be up to 225 psi.

For 6 inch Key ldh, (from their site) the Pro Flo fl is 2-3 psi per 100 feet at 1000 gpm. So 1 engine would be at 33 psi fl, the other at 48 psi. Say 4 for 2000 gpm. 44 psi and 64. Dp( discharge pressure) would be in the 125ish and 145ish for 80 psi supply pressure. The 2 other things to consider is that the average pump delivers its max capacity at 150 psi. Even in volume which is where i assume theyd be pumping in. If i remember correctly, and this is for the average pumps not the high pressure pumps. Over that and performance drops off quick. I think like at 200 psi its 75% , and at 250 psi its 50% rated capacity.The other is the max flow of a given hose. You can only move so much water thru a hose or pipe before it becomes inefficient.
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Yes. Agree with you and the hydraulics. Remember pump ratings are at a draft. When connected to a good main with 60 psi, and double or triple tapping the hydrant a 1500 GPM pump can produce 2300 GPM at a max pressure of about 90-100 psi. Now take that GPM into a second engine alongside to boost the pressure. The FDNY pumps are rated at 2000 so they can easily move 2500 to 2700 GPM off a good double tapped main at a decent pressure of about 150-170 through 6” hose
 
Capttomo said:
Yes. Agree with you and the hydraulics. Remember pump ratings are at a draft. When connected to a good main with 60 psi, and double or triple tapping the hydrant a 1500 GPM pump can produce 2300 GPM at a max pressure of about 90-100 psi. Now take that GPM into a second engine alongside to boost the pressure. The FDNY pumps are rated at 2000 so they can easily move 2500 to 2700 GPM off a good double tapped main at a decent pressure of about 150-170 through 6” hose
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Yes and under ideal conditions. Perfect hydrants, mains hard suction, etc. Plus what the 2 engines supplied went right into a 2nd pump to boost it further.

I started looking at this the other day when I saw how much equipment was moving water. Before the SP, they were flowing about 11k gpms, thru 8 towers, 6 handlines, 1 satellite, and a few blitzfires. At min, there were at least 10 engines pumping, before the Sp.Thats a lot of pressure put on 1 possibly 2 mains. It sounds like what ever sat supplied the SP may have grabbed a different main, then say E260 which I'm assuming was the initial supply for the SP. Which explains s 1600 feet of supply.
 
The problem is even the Satellites are being used differently now then years ago. I worked in Satellite 1 often during the 1970's. and yes, often they just dropped "then 4 1/2" inch hose, placed a Satellite Manifold on the end and supplied Tower Ladder, Portable Monitors, or Engines closer to the fire. But the concept was that if the fire reached major proportions the Mack Super Pumper, a Fireboat, or multiple regular Engine Companies could supply the large deck gun on the Satellites to attack the major fire, sometimes by knocking down the exterior walls to reach the fire. In those rare fires that even this did not work the Very Large "Stang Inteligiant Monitor" on the Mack Super Pumper Tender could be used do knock the building walls down from, a safer distance, and thereby lead to control of the fire. This concept is still valid. Yes, you may be able to do this with a number of 2,000 GPM pumpers but it is more difficult. A super pumper concept does work; the San Francisco Fire Department has order more very high
capacity "Super Pumpers" and New Jersey has the "Neptune" high-capacity pumping system. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
 
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