Not Just chief, company officers can transmit higher alarms and are encouraged to do so if warranted. For the past 20 years or more, once you go one engine over the 10-75, you need to transmit a 2nd alarm. The days of special calling extra engines is long over. Can call as many trucks as you want.
6/13/19 Brooklyn 4th Alarm Box 3324
- Thread starter Signal73
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Not beating a dead horse here but as said above anybody can transmit an additional Alarm....my mentioning of the 2 bldgs = a Second Alarm & 3 bldgs = as in the books "strongly consider a Third Alarm" is something that is in print as a prompt....there is no rule NOT to transmit additional Alarms.... at the 2001 Fathers Day LODD Fire the Chauf of SQ*288 transmitted the Second Alarm after the explosion......at the 1976 Liberty Ave & 120 St triple LODD Fire in QNS after the collapse occurred an MPO transmitted the order for additional Rescues....LAD*126 used the Battering Ram to access the area through a brick wall....(very few FDNY LADs today still carry this tool on their Rig but it could be invaluable) https://www.nytimes.com/1976/02/09/archives/3-firemen-killed-at-queens-blaze-6-others-are-hurt-as-roof.html
"With everything in the books, isn't it still the CIC discretion to go to the next higher alarm? If I remember correctly the dispatchers used to use a Dispatcher's Alarm (Dispatcher's 2nd. or 3rd. Alarm)."
I remember hearing from an old-timer about a "Dispatcher's 2nd Alarm" (in the days of bells only) that if an alarm came in and there was already a box out in that area where the normal first alarm units were already sent, the dispatcher could transmit a second alarm to send units there right away rather than "tap out" several special calls. It could be any greater alarm, not just a 2nd.
I remember hearing from an old-timer about a "Dispatcher's 2nd Alarm" (in the days of bells only) that if an alarm came in and there was already a box out in that area where the normal first alarm units were already sent, the dispatcher could transmit a second alarm to send units there right away rather than "tap out" several special calls. It could be any greater alarm, not just a 2nd.
The morning of November 7, 1994, Rescue 1 was returning to quarters from a downtown fire (75-71) when they came upon a vacant warehouse fire at West & Jane Streets. Their Lieutenant ordered the box (537) transmitted, as well as second, third, and fourth alarms before any other reports from the scene all within 9 minutes (0707-0716).
Full account was published in the December 1994 Fire Bell Club News Notes.
Full account was published in the December 1994 Fire Bell Club News Notes.
t123ken said:
I posted the following in the thread "Dispatchers Greater Alarms" back in 2011.
Dispatchers' Greater Alarms were not intended to fill a FIRST ALARM assignment, it was only to supplement a SECOND or GREATER alarm ordered by the incident commander. Therefore (though I won't swear it was never done) there was no such thing as a Dispatchers' Second Alarm [to fill an incomplete first alarm assignment].
The c1961 "Manual of Fire Communications" defines it:
"1.13.2 In the event engine and ladder companies assigned on second or greater alarm are not in service, dispatcher shall provide required number by special call or greater alarm."
This was not new, it was in effect even earlier, my Regs revised to December 1945 reads in part (may have been in effect long before that date):
"When all companies assigned to respond to a 2nd or greater alarm...are not in quarters to respond, the Dispatcher shall provide the required number of special calls or a greater alarm..."
So if a multiple alarm was ordered, and insufficient companies were available, dispatchers were authorized to transmit a higher alarm, not always the next higher alarm, but even beyond that. It was a fast way to get many units on the road, rather than tapping out numerous special-calls on the bells. One bad part was that it would result in many companies proceeding on relocations per the assignment card; often relocating to companies that were not even at the fire. Last I remember this being used was mid 1970s.
There were other cases where it backfired, like some staff chiefs or special units responding where it was not warranted. One story often told was in lower Brownsville or Canarsie a unit ordered a second alarm while responding in when he saw a bright orange glow in many windows of a high rise from a distance away. Dispatchers Third or Fourth Alarm was transmitted to provide enough units for the "second". Turns out it was reflections in the high-rise windows from the setting sun.
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Fire was intentionally set it looks like:
https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/intentional-fire-at-brooklyn-rabbis-home-leaves-over-a-dozen-injured/
https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/intentional-fire-at-brooklyn-rabbis-home-leaves-over-a-dozen-injured/
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The November 7, 1994 job, Box 44-537, is written up in Hashagen's Book on Rescue 1, pages 152-53 complete with text and picture.
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Ala117 said:
Great video DS. Thanks
manlt said:
There have been numerous jobs where the dispatcher give a full assignment based on multiple calls an on the 10-75 and request for an additional 1 + 1 the dispatcher transmits the All Hands, so one eng. over the 10-75 does not make a need for a 2nd. alarm, or perhaps I should say - maybe according to the books but not so in reality.
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A couple of years ago, the 3rd Division had an all hands job in Central Park off 5th Avenue. He had already called an extra engine above the all hands. But, he needed one more engine to fill out a stretch into the park. Manhattan told him....per regs?.he would need to transmit the second. This was done. The deputy waited a couple of minutes....then told the dispatcher to disregard all second alarm units except the first due engine on the second. It was like the famous Jack Nicholson diner scene in the movie " Five Easy Pieces"!
An extra engine above the all-hands assignment of 4 engines & 2 trucks+ fast truck & special units, is the 1st due engine on the 2nd alarm assignment.
So the Deputy was actually asking for, what normally would be, the 2nd engine on the 2nd alarm assignment.
So the Deputy was actually asking for, what normally would be, the 2nd engine on the 2nd alarm assignment.
On this job, there were 2 eng's. SC after the 4th alarm, and the dispatcher did not say anything about going to a 5th alarm.
And I realize the 2 SC Eng's were after the PWH - so I guess technically the disp.can let it go.
Also, lets keep in mind that before all the computer systems, the box cards only went up to a 5th alarm - all engs above that were SC or on the rare occasion a 2nd alarm in another boro was transmitted and those units responded to the 5th, which became a BoroughCall.
And I realize the 2 SC Eng's were after the PWH - so I guess technically the disp.can let it go.
Also, lets keep in mind that before all the computer systems, the box cards only went up to a 5th alarm - all engs above that were SC or on the rare occasion a 2nd alarm in another boro was transmitted and those units responded to the 5th, which became a BoroughCall.
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