R
Roosevelt Island 360
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To my knowledge, and I am just a resident of RI, all we have is SOC and I thought all training was on Wards Island.
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Wasn't it "Welfare Island" when they were using 99-920?
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You're right, I remember back in the 60's the bells ringing for a special call [ie: 5-9-9-920-60]. to respond there for training.johnd248 said:
What today is known as Roosevelt Island was known over the years as Blackwell Island & then Welfare Island. The name Welfare Is was in effect from 1921 up into the 70's. FDNY moved their training facility there in either the late 50's or early 60's.
Engine 49 was assigned to the island for fire protection. There were located in several different building with the last one being near today's tram station. The building had since been used to house the island support vehicles on the north side of the tram station. Engine 49 was disbanded in 1958, but when in service it had the most fire apparatus ever assigned to a fire company. Years back '49' had the responsibility for Randal's & Wards Islands. There were fire rigs stored on these islands to be used in case of a fire. In addition, before the FDNY radio, Engine 49 was responsible for signaling fire boats to return to quarters when responding past the island. They would be called by Manhattan Dispatchers who were also responsible for City Wide notifications.
Now remember that there there were more fire boats in that area in that area then today!
Years back there was boats on the East River at the Brooklyn Bridge, Greenpoint area, Ft. of Grand St, Mahn, & also East 90 St (or for a few years East 95 St, Mahn.) There was also a fire boat on the Harlem River near East 135 St (Mahn).
Now for Box 920: Yes that was the box that all firefighters hated to hear transmitted in their boro shortly after 9 a.m. each weekday. The signal was 66-Unit Type-920-unit #. This signal changed when the island was transferred from Manhattan control to Queens. I think this was done years after the bridge to Queens was completed. The island is back under Manhattan control again!
The firehouse on the island was built by the State of NY for regular firefighting units & not for SOC. FDNY felt that Engine 260 could be on the island in a short period of time, so no other fire companies were never assigned there.
The FDNY Mask Service Unit did work from Eng 49's quarters long after the engine co was disbanded. Then the Island Operating Company took the fire house over.
Engine 49 was assigned to the island for fire protection. There were located in several different building with the last one being near today's tram station. The building had since been used to house the island support vehicles on the north side of the tram station. Engine 49 was disbanded in 1958, but when in service it had the most fire apparatus ever assigned to a fire company. Years back '49' had the responsibility for Randal's & Wards Islands. There were fire rigs stored on these islands to be used in case of a fire. In addition, before the FDNY radio, Engine 49 was responsible for signaling fire boats to return to quarters when responding past the island. They would be called by Manhattan Dispatchers who were also responsible for City Wide notifications.
Now remember that there there were more fire boats in that area in that area then today!
Years back there was boats on the East River at the Brooklyn Bridge, Greenpoint area, Ft. of Grand St, Mahn, & also East 90 St (or for a few years East 95 St, Mahn.) There was also a fire boat on the Harlem River near East 135 St (Mahn).
Now for Box 920: Yes that was the box that all firefighters hated to hear transmitted in their boro shortly after 9 a.m. each weekday. The signal was 66-Unit Type-920-unit #. This signal changed when the island was transferred from Manhattan control to Queens. I think this was done years after the bridge to Queens was completed. The island is back under Manhattan control again!
The firehouse on the island was built by the State of NY for regular firefighting units & not for SOC. FDNY felt that Engine 260 could be on the island in a short period of time, so no other fire companies were never assigned there.
The FDNY Mask Service Unit did work from Eng 49's quarters long after the engine co was disbanded. Then the Island Operating Company took the fire house over.
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I think the borough preliminary came first; i.e. 99-5-920-60
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bklyndisp154.................you are correct with the signal 99-5-920-60...............the boro always came first at least when I was in the Queens C.O. in the early 70's............the bell system was the only means of transmission then ( other than the 3 rings tip off phone )
there was no voice alarm and no computers................the bell system was easy then, after receiving a box on the circuit, you go to the big transmitter and punch the box # in. hit the button and it would be sent out on the primary and secondary bells. probably the best ones I like best was transmitting a boro call. ie 77-145-99-33-4204. meaning that 77 brooklyn box 145 which is already a 5th alarm, needed more companys. 99 queens, 3-3 3rd alarm assignment, box # 4203. all companys assigned to queens box 4203 on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd alarms would respond to brooklyn box 145..................and when the big transmitter machine was out of service for good, that little moss code key between the radio man and the stat board man was used. when you lost count it was easy bang alot of bells out straight and try it again ...................YES THE WAR YEARS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF...................
there was no voice alarm and no computers................the bell system was easy then, after receiving a box on the circuit, you go to the big transmitter and punch the box # in. hit the button and it would be sent out on the primary and secondary bells. probably the best ones I like best was transmitting a boro call. ie 77-145-99-33-4204. meaning that 77 brooklyn box 145 which is already a 5th alarm, needed more companys. 99 queens, 3-3 3rd alarm assignment, box # 4203. all companys assigned to queens box 4203 on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd alarms would respond to brooklyn box 145..................and when the big transmitter machine was out of service for good, that little moss code key between the radio man and the stat board man was used. when you lost count it was easy bang alot of bells out straight and try it again ...................YES THE WAR YEARS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF...................
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Lone319Wolf said:
I never got to do that. Luck of the draw I guess. Weren't boro calls also called a "simultaneous alarm" or something to that effect? I always thought a boro call and a simultaneous were the same thing, but if they were different I hope someone will fill me in. Cant remember everything!
And, yes, I remember giving out the "three rings" many many times. It was really something else to be on the receiving end of the 3 rings in some firehouse. Those were the days of gung-ho turnouts and you would see chairs knocked over as people piled out of the sitting room to jump onto the back step.
When the brothers heard the 3 rings they knew...right away...that they were getting a "phone alarm" and that they were first due. More often than not the rig would be rolling out the door while the second round of the box was still coming over the secondary bell circuit. Boy, those were the days!
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Since I never experienced the FDNY bell system, it appears to me somewhat confusing when you get into these extensive numbers. My question is when you have a number as long as 77-145-99-33-4204 didn't the bells in the firehouses take an incredible amount of time to totally sound off the entire response or am I not getting something?
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vbcapt said:
YES!
In the past, FDNY did use box numbers such as 2222, 3333, 4444, 5555, 6666, 7777, 8888, & 9999 on the street. These were temporary mechanical boxes some times with a wooden base to replace a stuck fire box that was damaged beyond use. Dispatchers knew based on the circuit the temp box was on, & when it was pulled, they would transmit the regular box number.
Also in the past, FDNY has there own class 3 boxes inside of hospitals, schools, & other places of public assembly that were not-for-profit or government related besides highways locations. When the dispatch computer was being established, all of these boxes where changed to the 8000's so that they could be automatically read and entered into the Startfire Computer system.
In the 90's, with the push to do away with fire alarm boxes, the city directed alot of the places that had FDNY 8000's boxes to hire the services of a private fire alarm company to protect those facilities. If I am correct, even City Hall might have coverage from a private fire company today. There was a FDNY ERS in side City Hall near the police desk. I do not know if it is still there.
Now remember that in some of the boroughs that there are a few series of boxes, maybe 400 or so, that have been used as fill in boxes. These boxes will cover several different communities within the borough. A good example of this is the Bronx: look at the 4600, 4700, 4800, & 4900 series.
These boxes fill in the Bronx as follows -
4900 4800
4700 4600
On the westside of the boro,below Kingsbridge Rd & Fordham Rd up to the Bronx River you will find the 4700. Above Fordham - Kingsbridge Rd are 4900's
On the eastside of the Bronx River you will find the 4600 & 4800's. The border line is Pelham Parkway.
The fill in boxes are only used when the normally assigned number series for an area has no spares. In the East Bronx, you will see the 2600 & 2800 coverning the same communities.
The 5100's were established when the city attempted to develope the food market area of the Hunts Point Peninsula in the 70's.
Also in the past, FDNY has there own class 3 boxes inside of hospitals, schools, & other places of public assembly that were not-for-profit or government related besides highways locations. When the dispatch computer was being established, all of these boxes where changed to the 8000's so that they could be automatically read and entered into the Startfire Computer system.
In the 90's, with the push to do away with fire alarm boxes, the city directed alot of the places that had FDNY 8000's boxes to hire the services of a private fire alarm company to protect those facilities. If I am correct, even City Hall might have coverage from a private fire company today. There was a FDNY ERS in side City Hall near the police desk. I do not know if it is still there.
Now remember that in some of the boroughs that there are a few series of boxes, maybe 400 or so, that have been used as fill in boxes. These boxes will cover several different communities within the borough. A good example of this is the Bronx: look at the 4600, 4700, 4800, & 4900 series.
These boxes fill in the Bronx as follows -
4900 4800
4700 4600
On the westside of the boro,below Kingsbridge Rd & Fordham Rd up to the Bronx River you will find the 4700. Above Fordham - Kingsbridge Rd are 4900's
On the eastside of the Bronx River you will find the 4600 & 4800's. The border line is Pelham Parkway.
The fill in boxes are only used when the normally assigned number series for an area has no spares. In the East Bronx, you will see the 2600 & 2800 coverning the same communities.
The 5100's were established when the city attempted to develope the food market area of the Hunts Point Peninsula in the 70's.
bklyndisp54 said:I never got to do that. Luck of the draw I guess. Weren't boro calls also called a "simultaneous alarm" or something to that effect? I always thought a boro call and a simultaneous were the same thing, but if they were different I hope someone will fill me in. Cant remember everything!
In my Regs from the late 1940s The term "Simultaneous Call" is used first in the section Chapter 6 - Additional Apparatus Beyond a 5th Alarm. I believe this was always the Official terminology, but Borough Call came in when the supply and demand boroughs were different. A Simultaneous Call could utilize an assignment within the same borough as the fire. For example to send additional apparatus to a 5th Alarm in Jamaica, a Long Island City box could be used as the supply box. And in regard to an earlier poster, response to Simultaneous [and Borough] Calls were by Engine Companies only.
"Section 6.3 - The Engine Co. assignments of one fire alarm box may be called to the location of another part of the same borough by means of the simultaneous call. This call may also be used to call the assignments of a box in one borough to the location of a box in another borough..."
Telegraphs signals did vary over the years. A Simultaneous Call (within a borough) would not require the 2nd borough preliminary. Since Manhattan and Bronx had no duplication of box numbers, both use the telegraph "Borough Preliminary" 66. Similarly, back then there was no duplication of box numbers between Brooklyn and Queens, both shared the "Borough Preliminary" 77. Use of 99 to designate Queens came along later.
When you talk about "three rings", it was true that in most cases the "three rings" went to the first due engine and ladder; however, in my years riding Engine 248, we had a very good friend in the Brooklyn CO who gave the company "three rings" on many calls where we were not first due. When we arrived first, the "first due" engine would just scratch their heads.
I worked in the bank at the corner of Flatbush and Church and the inhouse telephone operator would give the branch manager "three rings" when he had a phone call. It drove me crazy for years!!
I worked in the bank at the corner of Flatbush and Church and the inhouse telephone operator would give the branch manager "three rings" when he had a phone call. It drove me crazy for years!!