Gentrification

Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
495
With many neighborhoods that were once the busiest in NYC, what companies do you think have seen the biggest decline in run and working incidents since the mid-90's. Obviously removing the companies in 2003, I was wondering who has seen the biggest decrease in runs and work.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
1,691
Many of the areas of the Bronx that were burned out in the 60's and 70's, and saw a mass exodus of people have now rebounded back. Take a look at some of the workload of Bronx companies over the years:


In 1968 E082 was the busiest engine in the city (all 5 boros) with 9111 runs. E050 was running 6121 runs in 1968. ONLY ten years later, E073, E082, E050, E060, and E041 saw their runs drop by nearly half. By the end of this ten year period the Bronx Fire Wave had shifted up the Grand Concourse and Companies in and around the 19th Battalion exploded with runs and heavy fire activity. The numbers and percentages in the below table are astonishing.



Screenshot 2023-07-18 at 8.34.21 PM.png


By 1986 - ( see below chart) 15 years after E082 was number one in the city, they had dropped to 44th place in runs, E050 had dropped to 55th place. In 1968, Fire activity was so heavy that E085 was created and placed in E082 quarters and E041 and E050 had second sections added. By 1986 E085, E041-2, and E050-2 were all gone leaving the original units to pick up all the work in their first due areas, and they were still 44th and 55th and 58th in runs citywide. The housing stock had been obliterated and the people left the area.


Screenshot 2023-07-18 at 8.41.20 PM.png

Amazingly, just 4 years after the data in the above chart, E082 was back up to 5th busiest in runs in the whole city. E050 was back up to 8th busiest. In 2013 E050 was #5 in runs city wide with over 5500 runs. In 2019 E050 was still the 5th busiest engine in the city responding to a whopping 6500+ runs that year. Many of these runs are CFR (EMS first responder).


The year 2022 Citywide Fires, not total runs shows that 4 of the top 5 busiest engine companies for fire duty, in the city (all five boros) are in the Bronx. Another amazing observation is the relatively small first and second due response areas (number of boxes) that these Bronx Companies have. E075 has 125 first and second due boxes, E050 has 129, and E042 has 138. E290 in Brooklyn has 308 first and second due boxes and E257 in Brooklyn has 322.

Screenshot 2023-07-18 at 8.38.25 PM.png

So in conclusion, yes it has been very interesting to watch fire activity shift, companies drop significantly in workload, other companies soared, only to see some of those companies like E082 and E050 rebound again as the South Bronx was rebuilt and people repopulated this areas.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
60
In reality fire activity, notwithstanding the lithium ion uptick, is way down. CFR runs account for 25%-40% of total runs depending upon the company. If not for that, I’d bet the city would try to make the case to close down companies.
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
359
How about 17 engine for one, the busiest at one time and always very active. Now only history, and to add insult to injury, they move E 15 in 17’s quarters.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
1,691
In reality fire activity, notwithstanding the lithium ion uptick, is way down. CFR runs account for 25%-40% of total runs depending upon the company. If not for that, I’d bet the city would try to make the case to close down companies.
Yes your points are very valid. E054 in midtown extremely busy yet over 50% of their runs are CFR and a good percentage of the non EMS are smells and bells. It’s the same all over the country. People have come to abuse the 911 system.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,202
Are fire companies located in areas due to fires or are they located in areas due to the potential for fire loss? It should be the latter rather than the former. Add in the impact of CFR runs then companies must account for that and the response time for those runs as well. If the bureaucrats had any common sense (wishful thinking) then most closed companies should be reactivated and new companies added. demand will always increase, it never goes away it only changes in type of service needed.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2023
Messages
301
wasn't at that
Many of the areas of the Bronx that were burned out in the 60's and 70's, and saw a mass exodus of people have now rebounded back. Take a look at some of the workload of Bronx companies over the years:


In 1968 E082 was the busiest engine in the city (all 5 boros) with 9111 runs. E050 was running 6121 runs in 1968. ONLY ten years later, E073, E082, E050, E060, and E041 saw their runs drop by nearly half. By the end of this ten year period the Bronx Fire Wave had shifted up the Grand Concourse and Companies in and around the 19th Battalion exploded with runs and heavy fire activity. The numbers and percentages in the below table are astonishing.



View attachment 37256


By 1986 - ( see below chart) 15 years after E082 was number one in the city, they had dropped to 44th place in runs, E050 had dropped to 55th place. In 1968, Fire activity was so heavy that E085 was created and placed in E082 quarters and E041 and E050 had second sections added. By 1986 E085, E041-2, and E050-2 were all gone leaving the original units to pick up all the work in their first due areas, and they were still 44th and 55th and 58th in runs citywide. The housing stock had been obliterated and the people left the area.


View attachment 37258

Amazingly, just 4 years after the data in the above chart, E082 was back up to 5th busiest in runs in the whole city. E050 was back up to 8th busiest. In 2013 E050 was #5 in runs city wide with over 5500 runs. In 2019 E050 was still the 5th busiest engine in the city responding to a whopping 6500+ runs that year. Many of these runs are CFR (EMS first responder).


The year 2022 Citywide Fires, not total runs shows that 4 of the top 5 busiest engine companies for fire duty, in the city (all five boros) are in the Bronx. Another amazing observation is the relatively small first and second due response areas (number of boxes) that these Bronx Companies have. E075 has 125 first and second due boxes, E050 has 129, and E042 has 138. E290 in Brooklyn has 308 first and second due boxes and E257 in Brooklyn has 322.

View attachment 37257

So in conclusion, yes it has been very interesting to watch fire activity shift, companies drop significantly in workload, other companies soared, only to see some of those companies like E082 and E050 rebound again as the South Bronx was rebuilt and people repopulated this areas.
wasn't at that time 85 and 82 shared the same boxes, then the department split the boxes so 82 and 85 didn't go to the same boxes
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
1,691
wasn't at that

wasn't at that time 85 and 82 shared the same boxes, then the department split the boxes so 82 and 85 didn't go to the same boxes
E85 was put into a tin house on Boston Road a few blocks West of E82 after initially being housed in 82’s quarters.
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
5,598
Thank you "Capttomo" and those who contributed to this topic.
Those of us who have been around for awhile certainly remember the busiest companies and how activity moved throughout various neighborhoods.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
1,523
wasn't at that

wasn't at that time 85 and 82 shared the same boxes, then the department split the boxes so 82 and 85 didn't go to the same boxes
When the Department organized the first of the new 2nd sections (e.g., E91-2) in the late 1960s, i believe the units initially did not respond to the same boxes. This had traditionally been the custom for double companies of the same number. It was then realized that this practice did little to relieve the workload on the surrounding units. Response assignments were soon changed to include both sections on some of the same boxes.

I am not sure if this applied to Es82/85 when they shared the same quarters. They were considered to be distinct units and for that reason probably were assigned together. It's why E85 was not organized as E82-2. Gotta be someone on here that can inform us how that worked.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
1,691
Great Topic.....I don't have any knowledge of the boxes that the second sections responded to. I thought I'd share some of the graphics I made on these crazy times in the South Bronx. Notice the first graphic gives credit to the sources I obtained the data from.

Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.38.50 AM.png

1961: The total number of Runs by FDNY in all boros is 97683. The busiest engine company in the city is E058 with 3024 Runs.
Only 2 Bronx Engine Companies made the top ten list for runs; E082 and E073

Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.25.01 AM.png

1967: Citywide total runs for all companies in all boros have almost doubled in just 6 years. From 97000 to 172000! The busiest engine company in the city is E082 who is now running 6659 runs per year. E085 is created and placed in E082's quarters. 5 of the top 10 busiest engine companies citywide are Bronx Engine Companies. Amazingly E082 is not the busiest company in the city. L120 has that distinction with 7448 runs.

Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.28.17 AM.png

1968: City wide, total runs in all boros are up 32% from the previous year. 7 of the top 10 busiest engine companies citywide (runs) are in the Bronx, a small concentrated area of the Bronx. E082 ran 9111 runs that year and E085, running out of 82's house was right behind them as number 2 in runs. This does not include L031 which also ran out of that house. Together E-082 and E085 are running OVER 17000 runs a year. Add L031 in and the house on Intervale Ave. is running over 23,000 runs a year! FDNY adds many second sections and additional companies as you can see in the orange table.

Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.30.29 AM.png

1970: Two more second section ladder companies are created in the Bronx

Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.35.36 AM.png

1971: A tin house is constructed at 1264 Boston Road and E085, and TCU 712 are relocated to this new house. The new house on Boston Road is just 5 blocks west of E082/L031 quarters, a mere 1700 feet away from each other


Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.35.06 AM.pngScreenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.45.52 AM.png


1972: 7 of the top 10 busiest engine companies citywide (runs) are in the Bronx. AS the housing stock is depleted by the fires and resident flee either out of the boro or North and East in the boro, the fire wave begins to spread into E088, E045 and E042, and E046 areas. 5 years later, in 1978, E048, E043, and E075's areas would explode with activity. Sq1 is disbanded and used to create L058 located with E045 on Tremont Avenue. Engine 88-2 is disbanded and E72 is created. TCU 712 becomes Ladder 59 and remains in the house with E085. A few years later L059 would be moved to the quarters of E043


Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.34.16 AM.png

Enjoy, and a tip o da helmet to all those members that proudly served during these Crazy times. May those that made the supreme sacrifice during this era....continue to rest in peace.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.34.35 AM.png
    Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 10.34.35 AM.png
    62.1 KB · Views: 4
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
495
Capttomo, the work you put into this is great. These maps and stats are very informative. I've always been interested in the fire duty and changes in these areas of the South Bronx. I started this thread after watching the most recent Gettin Salty episode with Craig Thweatt. he talks about his dad being in L28 from 1960-1980 and then him being assigned to L30 in the early 90's as Harlem was rocking and rolling. Harlem seems to be one area of NYC that has gone through a dramatic gentrification in the past 15-20 years. Obviously areas of Bed-Stuy, The South Bronx and Northern Queens have also gentrified, while areas like East NY, Brownsville and So Jamaica remain almost as bust as they were in the late 90's.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
1,691
Capttomo, the work you put into this is great. These maps and stats are very informative. I've always been interested in the fire duty and changes in these areas of the South Bronx. I started this thread after watching the most recent Gettin Salty episode with Craig Thweatt. he talks about his dad being in L28 from 1960-1980 and then him being assigned to L30 in the early 90's as Harlem was rocking and rolling. Harlem seems to be one area of NYC that has gone through a dramatic gentrification in the past 15-20 years. Obviously areas of Bed-Stuy, The South Bronx and Northern Queens have also gentrified, while areas like East NY, Brownsville and So Jamaica remain almost as bust as they were in the late 90's.
Thank you for the kind words. Yes there were several areas of the city hit hard during this era. I focused on the Bronx, because I grew up there, and experienced the decay up until my Dad moved us from the Bronx to Rockland County. 75 and 33 were first due to my house. Before becoming a fireman, I buffed these areas as well, into the 80's. So my interest was in this limited area of the city.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
3,380
Many of the areas of the Bronx that were burned out in the 60's and 70's, and saw a mass exodus of people have now rebounded back. Take a look at some of the workload of Bronx companies over the years:


In 1968 E082 was the busiest engine in the city (all 5 boros) with 9111 runs. E050 was running 6121 runs in 1968. ONLY ten years later, E073, E082, E050, E060, and E041 saw their runs drop by nearly half. By the end of this ten year period the Bronx Fire Wave had shifted up the Grand Concourse and Companies in and around the 19th Battalion exploded with runs and heavy fire activity. The numbers and percentages in the below table are astonishing.



View attachment 37256


By 1986 - ( see below chart) 15 years after E082 was number one in the city, they had dropped to 44th place in runs, E050 had dropped to 55th place. In 1968, Fire activity was so heavy that E085 was created and placed in E082 quarters and E041 and E050 had second sections added. By 1986 E085, E041-2, and E050-2 were all gone leaving the original units to pick up all the work in their first due areas, and they were still 44th and 55th and 58th in runs citywide. The housing stock had been obliterated and the people left the area.


View attachment 37258

Amazingly, just 4 years after the data in the above chart, E082 was back up to 5th busiest in runs in the whole city. E050 was back up to 8th busiest. In 2013 E050 was #5 in runs city wide with over 5500 runs. In 2019 E050 was still the 5th busiest engine in the city responding to a whopping 6500+ runs that year. Many of these runs are CFR (EMS first responder).


The year 2022 Citywide Fires, not total runs shows that 4 of the top 5 busiest engine companies for fire duty, in the city (all five boros) are in the Bronx. Another amazing observation is the relatively small first and second due response areas (number of boxes) that these Bronx Companies have. E075 has 125 first and second due boxes, E050 has 129, and E042 has 138. E290 in Brooklyn has 308 first and second due boxes and E257 in Brooklyn has 322.

View attachment 37257

So in conclusion, yes it has been very interesting to watch fire activity shift, companies drop significantly in workload, other companies soared, only to see some of those companies like E082 and E050 rebound again as the South Bronx was rebuilt and people repopulated this areas.
Well done!
 
Top