Lawrence MA 2nd alarm

M

Massfireman

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Dec 8, 2012
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02:43  for 202 - 204 Lawrence ST.  Engine 7 -5, Ladder 5 (snorkel) Rescue 1, Car 21 (DC)
02:52 Second alarm, engine 6,9, ladder 9 .
Station coverage Methuen Engine , Lowell Ladder to Central Station, Lowell St.
Andover to South Broadway.

Fire on the front porches of a 2. 5 wdfrm , extending into floor 1 and 2.
2 lines stretched and operation ladders open up.

http://www.eagletribune.com/local/x1750258015/Smoking-materials-sparked-3-a-m-Lawrence-fire
 
Chief - why the long run for Lowell ladder?  Seems there are local departments which are closer.  They cannot supply a truck?  What if additional trucks are needed at a multiple right away?  Also, doesn't this arrangement leave Lowell understaffed?
 
I think it may be because Lowell has multiple staffed Ladder Companies and the surrounding communities closer to Lawrence may not have staffed Ladders or may not want to strip their own cities or areas of Ladder coverage.
 
I know Lowell and Lawrence are not part of Massmetrofire, but if you check their site most availability is 1 engine. I am sure it is the same in those town's mutual aid structure, unfortunately there is no web site for the Lowell/Lawrence mutual aid. GG
 
I got it guys.  Thanks. 

The towns around are paid departments and maybe understaffed, too.  But what do they do if they get a multiple alarm fire in their respective towns?  Does Lawrence respond, too? 

Metheun is adjacent to Lawrence.  Metheun FD, a paid department, staffs 1 truck.  If they get a serious fire, who sends the 2nd truck - Lawrence?  Same question about Andover and N. Andover who have truck companies and are closer than Lowell. 

Seems that Lawrence and Lowell departments are depending on each other for mutual aid instead of closer departments. It might be 10-15 miles between those two cities.  Long way for the 3rd truck. 

Maybe the neighboring towns are responding in.  Sorry, I don't know anything about mutual aid up there. 
 
I know this is an old question but thought I would reply.

The ladder question in this part of the Merrimack Valley. Lawrence runs 2, a snorkel and 100 ft stick. Lowell runs 3 or 4 3 100 ft Sticks and a platform, Haverhill fully staffs 1, 100 ft platform. Andover runs a 100 ft stick with 2 FFs, Methuen runs a 100 ft Platform with 2 ff and North Andover runs a 100 ft ladder cross staffed with an EMS unit, Salem NH also has 1 100 ft stick with 3 cross-staffed

Lowell Has 1 truck available , Lawrence 1 truck, Haverhill will send their truck prefers not to, Methuen is 1 or 1 as well as Andover.

This is the reason for the long run from Lowell to Lawrence and in return.  As far as neighboring communities Lawrence will send 1 engine and 1 ladder.

 
Thanks Massfireman.  They all seem to be good departments.  It would seem to be better if the closest available ladder would respond, and maybe move the further away Lawrence or Lowell truck to the empty town.  But if it works, it works.  Those chiefs know best. 

It still looks like Lowell and Lawrence could use another ladder company.
 
I know several years ago Mass had what they called Propersition 2 1/2 and with that came some huge cutbacks to most of the states busiest working cities.

I think Springfield went from 16 engines/8 trucks to 9 engs/4 trucks.
Worcester lost three engines that were in a double engine and truck house
Boston closed about 20 companies, including Eng 43/Lad 20 which was very busy and a favorite buff/spark hangout called "Whip City" at a nearby Howard Johnsons. The only thing that helped to save Boston and the surrounding cities was that there had already been a good mutual aid system in place called "Metrofire".
  Lawrence was fighting a huge number of arson fires for a smaller sized city and they took a huge hit during that time.
 
Boston's cuts were insane. E-12 in Roxbury busy and gone! 43/20, if you buffed Boston they were another busy house. Most of the cuts were in 2 engine/ 1 ladder company houses,, why build them. E 40 in East Boston, E-36 in Charlestown, E25/L8 Downtown, closed E-10 and moved them to this house. E-26 was with 7/17, gone. Ladder 13 gone. Ladder 30 gone. E-45 in Rosindale gone. E-1 in Southie, close to the highways, gone. Rescue 2 dis-banded. In Brighton D-11 E-34 and L-22 gone. Only district that lost an engine and a truck. D-11 Brighton, and District 1 East Boston, deputy chiefs leave them alone. Another part of Boston, just really far, BFD's SI!  Kevin White was a useless individual, he wanted to be POTUS. Looking at what we have now, well we are screwed, either then or now!
 
grumpy grizzly said:
Boston's cuts were insane. E-12 in Roxbury busy and gone! 43/20, if you buffed Boston they were another busy house. Most of the cuts were in 2 engine/ 1 ladder company houses,, why build them. E 40 in East Boston, E-36 in Charlestown, E25/L8 Downtown, closed E-10 and moved them to this house. E-26 was with 7/17, gone. Ladder 13 gone. Ladder 30 gone. E-45 in Rosindale gone. E-1 in Southie, close to the highways, gone. Rescue 2 dis-banded. In Brighton D-11 E-34 and L-22 gone. Only district that lost an engine and a truck. D-11 Brighton, and District 1 East Boston, deputy chiefs leave them alone. Another part of Boston, just really far, BFD's SI!  Kevin White was a useless individual, he wanted to be POTUS. Looking at what we have now, well we are screwed, either then or now!
Click to expand...

  It was once popular to put two engines and a ladder together. The Northeast version of LA Citys Task Forces. But with that came cutbacks in several cities. As the saying goes "With consolidation comes elimination". Such was the case for many notheast cities.
  In Bridgeport, Ct those so called Task Forces were soon eliminated.
      Engine 1, Eng 5, Lad 5 lost Eng 5
      Engine 6, Eng 8, Lad 6 lost Eng 8
      Engine 3, Eng 4, Ladder 3 lost Lad 3
      Engine 9, Eng 16, and an additional Lad Co. Eng 9 was lost and no new ladder.
      Engine 7, Eng 11, Ladder 11 lost Eng 11.
 
This is a few years back but I think the staffing concern still exists.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/08/09/lawrence_fires_raise_concerns_over_departments_funding/

Lawrence has close to 80,000 people and contains a lot old mills, manufacturing buildings and triple deckers.  If they only have 2 truck companies, they are already in trouble on a 2nd alarm or if another working fire occurs. In the 2nd alarm they had today, they got 2 engines a truck and a rescue on the 1st alarm and 2 engines and a truck on the 2nd.  Maybe Lowell then relocated a truck to cover the entire city.

Lowell has over 105K people and also has mills, industrial buildings, college campus, triple deckers.  They only have 4 truck companies. 

Both cities are quite a few miles apart and it must be challenging do depend on a distant truck company at working fires and multiple alarms. 
 
List of disbanded Boston companies:

◾Engine 1 - 119 Dorchester St., South Boston - Disbanded on Oct 20, 1981
◾Engine 6 - Bowdoin Square, Downtown - Disbanded 2/4/1947; reactivated 4/27/1949; disbanded 7/13/1954; reactivated 4/18/1963; disbanded 11/8/1963
◾Engine 11 - 360 Saratoga St., East Boston(Quarters of Engine 5, District 1) - Disbanded on Oct 20, 1981.
◾Engine 12, District 13 - 407 Dudley St., Roxbury - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Engine 13 - 1046 Tremont St., Roxbury - Disbanded in 1967 to form the Rescue-Pumper Unit
◾Engine 15 - 109 Dorchester Ave., South Boston - Disbanded in 1954
◾Engine 19 - 128 Babson St. - Disbanded in 1958
◾Engine 23 - 920 Massachusetts Ave., Roxbury - Disbanded in July 13, 1954.
◾Engine 25 - 123 Oliver St., Downtown - Disbanded on February 4, 981
◾Engine 26 - 200 Columbus Ave., Back Bay - Quarters of Engine 7, Tower Ladder 17, District 4 - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Engine 27 - 333 Main St., Charlestown - Disbanded on July 1, 1961.
◾Engine 31(Fireboat) - Disbanded in 1976 to form Marine Unit
◾Engine 34 - 444 Western Ave., Allston - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Engine 35, Water Tower 1 - 194 Broadway, Downtown - Disbanded on February 4, 1947.
◾Engine 36 - 525 Main St., Charlestown(Quarters of Engine 32, Ladder 9) - Disbanded on October 20, 1981.
◾Engine 38 - 344 Congress St., South Boston(Currently Boston Fire Museum) - Disbanded on February 4, 1947.
◾Engine 40 - 260 Sumner St., East Boston - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Engine 43, Ladder 20 - 920 Massachusetts Ave., Roxbury - Disbanded on February 4, 1981.
◾Engine 44(Fireboat) - Northern Ave. Bridge - Disbanded on May 25, 1954.
◾Engine 45 - 945 Canterbury St., Roslindale(Quarters of Engine 53, Ladder 16) - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Engine 46 - 1884 Dorchester Ave., Dorchester - Disbanded on August 12, 1958.
◾Engine 47(Fireboat) - Battery Wharf - Disbanded in 1976 to form Marine Unit
◾Ladder 5 - 5115 Washington St., West Roxbury(Quarters of Engine 55)
◾Ladder 8 - 123 Oliver St., Downtown - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Ladder 12 - 1046 Tremont St., Roxbury - Disbanded in 1960.
◾Ladder 13 - 700 Tremont St., South End(Quarters of Engine 22) - Disbanded on October 20, 1981.
◾Ladder 22 - 425 Faneuil St., Brighton(Quarters of Engine 51) - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Ladder 27 - 301 Neponset Ave., Dorchester(Quarters of Engine 20) - Disbanded on July 15, 1877 to form Aerial Tower 2
◾Ladder 30 - 1870 Columbus Ave., Roxbury(Quarters of Engine 42) - Disbanded on April 10, 1981.
◾Ladder 32
◾Ladder 33
◾Ladder 34
◾Aerial Tower 1 - 618 Harrison Ave., South End(Quarters of Engine 3) - Disbanded to form Tower Unit
◾Aerial Tower 2 - 301 Neponset Ave., Dorchester(Quarters of Engine 20) - Disbanded to form Tower Unit
◾Tower Unit - 123 Oliver St., Downtown - Disbanded in 2000 to form Tower Ladder 3
◾District 2 - 34 Winthrop St., Charlestown(Quarters of Engine 50)
◾District 5 - 560 Huntington Ave., Roxbury(Quarters of Engine 37, Ladder 26) - Disbanded in 2010
◾District 10 - 5115 Washington St., West Roxbury(Quarters of Engine 55) - Disbanded in 2010
◾Division 3
◾Rescue 3 - Bowdoin Square, Downtown
◾Lighting Plant 1 - 123 Oliver St., Downtown
◾Lighting Plant 2 - 641 Columbia Rd., Dorchester(Quarters of Engine 21) - Disbanded in ?
◾Lighting Plant 3
 
nfd2004 said:
  It was once popular to put two engines and a ladder together. The Northeast version of LA Citys Task Forces. But with that came cutbacks in several cities. As the saying goes "With consolidation comes elimination". Such was the case for many notheast cities.
  In Bridgeport, Ct those so called Task Forces were soon eliminated.
      Engine 1, Eng 5, Lad 5 lost Eng 5
      Engine 6, Eng 8, Lad 6 lost Eng 8
      Engine 3, Eng 4, Ladder 3 lost Lad 3
      Engine 9, Eng 16, and an additional Lad Co. Eng 9 was lost and no new ladder.
      Engine 7, Eng 11, Ladder 11 lost Eng 11.
Click to expand...
Also New Haven, CT:

Engine 1, Engine 11, Truck 2(Lost Engine 1)
Engine 2, Engine 4, Truck 1, Central Battalion(Lost Engine 2 and Central Battalion)
Engine 3, Engine 6, Truck 4(Lost Engine 3 to form Tac. 1)
Engine 7, Engine 10, Truck 3, East Battalion(Lost Engine 7 to form Tac. 2)
Engine 8, Engine 14, Truck 6(Lost Engine 14 and Truck 6)

Hartford, CT:

Engine 3, Engine 7(Lost Engine 3 to form Tac. 1)
Engine 4, Ladder 1, Tac. 1, District 1(Lost Engine 4 and Ladder 1)
Engine 11, Engine 12, Ladder 5(Lost Engine 12)

Springfield, MA:

Engine 2, Engine 16(Lost Engine 2)
Engine 9, Ladder 9(Lost Ladder 9)
Engine 10, Ladder 10(Lost Ladder 10)
Engine 12, Ladder 12(Lost Ladder 12)

Yonkers, NY:

Engine 1(Prior to Westchester County number change), Engine 305, Tower Ladder 75, Rescue 1(Lost Engine 1 and Engine 305)
Engine 302, Engine 309, Ladder 72(Lost Engine 302)
Engine 311, Ladder 76, Collapse Unit(Lost Engine 311 to form Squad 11 and Ladder 76)

Newark, NJ:

Engine 1, Engine 3, Ladder 1(Lost Engine 1 and Engine 3, Ladder 1 moved uptown and eventually was closed)
Engine 10, Engine 12, Ladder 5(Lost Engine 12)
Engine 18, Engine 25, Ladder 9, Battalion 4(Lost Engine 25 and Ladder 9)
Engine 21, Engine 26, Ladder 12(Lost Engine 21)

And Camden, NJ(Across the river from Philly):

Engine 1, Engine 2, Engine 6, Ladder 1(Lost Engine 2 and Engine 6)
Engine 3, Engine 10, Ladder 4(Lost Engine 3 and Ladder 4)
Engine 5, Engine 9, Ladder 3, Battalion 2(Lost Engine 5)
 
To compare Lawrence and Lowell. Lawrence population of 65,000+ Lowell is 100,000+ home of UMass/Lowell. Go to Firenews.org for more info on Massachusetts departments.
 
Polulation:

Lawrence 82,000. 7.2 square miles
Lowell 109,000, 19 square miles
Haverhill 65,000, 25 - 30 square miles
Methuen 48,000 25 square miles.
 
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