Mosque

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Bigandy

Guest
I myself had a calling after the attacks of September 11th, however, already being enrolled in college I didn't join. I joined the ARMY in 2004, after successully finishing a degree in civil engineering at Rutgers, finished my 9 weeks of basic training, and off to Fort Benning I went for Ranger School, and than finished up at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. I was designated into the 3rd battalion and off to Iraq I went in 2005 completing over over 250+ missions with my friends by my side. I must say being a veteran, and seeing more than the usually person out there it really messed around with my head. I was born a Catholic, and killing people takes part of you away from yourself. I joined with my best friend, and we met a lot of great, strong young people along the way. One of my best buds was killed on my second tour about a week in. I promised myself, before I left, I was there for only the 'bad' guys and I wouldn't let Religion get in the way. I promised myself that I have the Constitution of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to uphold, and that means upholding the right to freedom of religion, so me arguing against Muslims would be also attacking the Country I just spent 5 years and a 100 some odd days protecting. It really takes a lot out of you to enter with a specific mind set and not go against it after all I've seen in both Afghanistan and Iraq. My best friend would disagree with me now if we got to talking, but I understand. I just didn't let some conflict get the better of my emotions toward a totally different race of people. There will always, and always have been wars over things that don't make sense, but I think I did justice in my own way to the things that happened on September 11th. I served my country proud, and would do it all over again. I'm just happy I made it out of there alive, with my sanity, so I can now start a family and enjoy my life to the fullest.

More importantly, the Mosque should not be located there. It's a slap in the face to the victims and their families. Plus there is a awesome chance it will be vandalized or burned to the ground by some lunatic. They can practice there religion, just not there.

And the most important thing...why aren't the people who are funding this thing speaking up? 100 million dollars just doesn't show up out of thin air, and if it does...I've been searching in all of the wrong places.

Andy
 
1261Truckie

1261Truckie

Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
1,402
Wow, this story only gets better (or is it worse) as time goes on.
Hey, I have an idea, why doesn't New York and the Port Authority donate the new Liberty/Freedom Tower to the imam when it's complete and let him make that into his mosque.
On the other side of this story, whatever happened to St. Nikolas Greek Orthodox Church? After it was destroyed in the collapse of the Trade Center, the city promised to help them out with rebuilding. Guess they have gotten lost in the shuffle, or maybe Greek Orthodox doesn't rate (or earn as many brownie points) as islam does.
Sad to say, this is one native New Yorker who is glad he's no longer in New York to personally witness this bologna!
 
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truckman

Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
29
MP1234 said:
Legally they have every right to build it there, and they should be allowed. They have done nothing wrong and shouldn't be catorgized as all evil. It has nothing to do with ground zero and is not on that land. Im not siding with what they are doing, but they have a right to build it just like we have a right to protest it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.  They should take all the radical Muslims and blow them up.  Then take all the "good" Muslims and put them on a boat along with you where they are safe.  Then they should sink that boat!
 
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bklyndisp54

Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
268
The posts in this thread are getting nastier by the day. 

Can we take the political rhetoric somewhere else.. and let this get back to being a fire service web group?
 
rdm258

rdm258

Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
1,250
Locking the topic can be good and bad. This all part of History and YES the politics's need to stay out, but I do feel that MOST of us, post responsible writing's either opposing it or agreeing with the location. What is going to happen is going to happen, just think there will be a lot more to say about this. I think we need to Police ourselves, if we lock this one topic out, where do we draw the line as to other topic's being locked out that might offend other's. If someone does not want to read it --THEN DON'T! It's the same discussion's that we have at our fire house's on a normal basis and we all know they can get heated up to. We will have to be mature and if possible understanding of other's views and believes.
 
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bklyndisp54

Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
268
rdm258 said:
...if we lock this one topic out, where do we draw the line as to other topic's being locked out that might offend other's...
Click to expand...

Maybe I can suggest where the line is.  When you have one guy suggesting that the mosque be populated and then "nuked" and someone else offering that some folks should be placed on a boat which is then sunk...then we are over the line.

This is making the whole board... which is otherwise held in high regard...look bad. 

And never mind how arguments go it the firehouse.  That's a closed community.  This is a public forum.

Let's get real.
 
rdm258

rdm258

Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
1,250
Just for a handful of idiots just doesn't make sense. If that is what we all feel that should be done, then guess so, it's just sad that has to be done. There will be other topic's that will arise in the future and the site administrator's/senior member's should come up with a fair and balanced way of deciding WHO pulls the plug. Just my thought.
 
68jk09

68jk09

Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
15,690
In reply # 17 ...i said ..."IN CLOSING" ...beware of wolves in sheeps clothing & Bless all those fighting for the AMERICAN way of life......WELL ....i thought that would be my last post on THIS issue on THIS site....but...i will retract the  "IN CLOSING" statement ....the thread started off with a Excellent  video on a serious piece of AMERICAN history ....some following replys were in favor ....as i would expect on  a Fire Service Related site...then some opposition was expressed ...which is entirely the right of the person posting  ( & I am not referring to the Member who retracted his early reply ..no problem there)...but i feel ( for whatever it' s worth & not that our opinions will make or break the issue )....this is a Fire related issue & more so an AMERICAN issue & too just dismiss it or lock the thread is a disservice to those who... "went to a higher level on 9-11 & continue to do so as we speak".....this issue will not go away tommorow & may get more serious...& whether you are pro or con ....it will go on just as this site will... whether it' s discussed or not & yes it is a public forum & also it  is a public issue .     
 
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truck4

Administrator
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
2,658
This thread will remain open due to the nature of the topic. A few comments were removed because I really don't feel like dealing with a news reporting using them as quotes by a firefighter in tomorrow's paper. We all feel very strongly about all this, but you guys have to watch what you say on public forum.
 
raybrag

raybrag

Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
3,987
I'm fortunate in that I didn't lose anyone close to me on 9/11, and so I won't pretend to understand the feelings and anguish of those who did . . . including those who lost buddies, friends, or relatives who were included in the 343.  But I have lost good friends in combat, and I know what that feels like, as I'm sure many of you do. As a result, I can understand the strong feelings that people can have about issues like this, and I don't fault anyone for expressing them. 

I get disturbed, however, when people  advocate violence against a CLASS of people due to the actions of a few whacko members of that class, and I simply believe that to be wrong.  There are millions of muslims on this planet, and only a very small minority of them are jihadists who want to kill all of us.  I have no argument with chasing every one of these crazies and sending them to Allah permanently . . . just leave the innocents alone.  It bothers me to read statements from people who have devoted their lives to saving people and property from the red beast advocating violence against any group.  Tell me:  if you arrived at an apartment building with flames blowing out of every window on the 5th floor and someone said to you, ?Please, there are 6 muslims trapped up there!? . . . would you refuse to go rescue them?    I didn't think so.  So why do you talk about nuking them or putting them on a boat and sinking it?  Do you see my point?  Sure, there are extremists, just as there are in most cultures (remember Timothy McVeigh?).  But don't condemn all members of a group because of  the actions of a few.

The kind of vitriol that has been expressed on this topic reminds me of what was done to the Japanese-Americans in the early days of World War II.  How would you like to have been a Japanese-American in San Francisco in January 1942?  The anger expressed against those people was so extreme that they were rounded up and put in concentration camps, and their property confiscated . . . and these were American citizens.  It was wrong then, and what has been expressed here is wrong now.

I really don't have a position on the propriety of opening an Islamic Center two blocks from ground zero.  Certainly the muslim community has a legal right to do so, but is it the intelligent or sensitive thing for them to do?  I don't know.  I do have a question, though.  As I understand it, the location in question is 2 blocks from ground zero.  Is this too close?  If so, then where would NOT be too close . . . 10 blocks . . . 1 mile . . . anywhere in Manhattan . . .  anywhere in New York??
 
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mack

Administrator
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
13,431
Sorry to disagree, Raybrag.  I appreciate and agree with most of your sentiments but have to disagree with the way you ended your thoughts.  If it is "intelligent or sensitive" to build an Islamic cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero, we would not be having a national debate regarding the proposal.  If there is no difference between two blocks and twenty blocks, then why are so many people upset because it is too close?

Hundreds of people physically disappeared, many were firefighters and cops, within the debris and dust spread across the blocks around the World Trade Center.  The landing gear of one of the hijacked jets landed on the roof of the proposed site.  Two blocks is different than 20 blocks away or 1 mile.  It is too close.

The people I know who are opposed to building a mosque so close to the site where 343 firefighters were killed and a few thousand other people were murdered are not Islam phobic and do not blame all Muslims.  But the undeniable fact is that the act was planned, funded, executed and celebrated by Islamic terrorists and their supporters.  We were not attacked by a foreign nation.  The hijackers were Al-Qaida, a militant Islamist group, with a fundamentalist Islamic movement calling for global Jihad.    

The 1993 World Trade Center bombing conspirators were also Islamic terrorists, the attack was financed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and backed by the blind Muslim cleric Omar Abdel Rahman, convicted leader of "the Islamic Group".  6 were killed.

The 1998 US Embassy bombings in 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya (224 dead and 4000 injured) were conducted by the Egyptian Islamic Jihad.

The October 2000 attack on the USS Cole  (17 US sailors killed and 39 injured) was carried out by Islamic terrorists.  

Sorry but I believe that it is truly insensitive and inappropriate to build an Islamic cultural center so close to the site of two attacks carried out by Islamic terrorists.  A 13 story cultural center and tourist attraction is too close.  Many of the families who lost love ones have already expressed their upsetment.

Manhattan is a pretty big island.  There are many other possible locations.  The proponents may own the land and have a right to build so close to Ground Zero - but they shouldn't.
 
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