NYC Dept. of Buildings, Emergency Vehicle

[BoroCall]

This afternoon I saw a NYC Dept. of Building SUV with emergency strobe lights, it was sitting curbside next to a PD having a major renovation.

I was not aware that NYC DOB had authorized emergency vehicles.  It is strange that they do, but that the Con Ed gas or electric emergency crews do not.

 

[Bulldog]

I agree, that makes absolutely no sense. Maybe I can see a need for them to have one if they have somebody on duty 24/7 for somebody to respond to dangerous conditions but I'm sure that Con Ed response to many more calls that would be considered emergencies.

I guess since Dept. of Bldgs. is a city agency they have more pull?

What color strobes are they running?

 

[mikeindabronx]

This afternoon I saw a NYC Dept. of Building SUV with emergency strobe lights, it was sitting curbside next to a PD having a major renovation.

I was not aware that NYC DOB had authorized emergency vehicles.  It is strange that they do, but that the Con Ed gas or electric emergency crews do not.

Con Ed does have emergency crews, the ones I see most often are big red step vans with EMERGENCY on them. I'm sure "fdce54" could give us more info on them

 

[BoroCall]

I agree, that makes absolutely no sense. Maybe I can see a need for them to have one if they have somebody on duty 24/7 for somebody to respond to dangerous conditions but I'm sure that Con Ed response to many more calls that would be considered emergencies.

I guess since Dept. of Bldgs. is a city agency they have more pull?

What color strobes are they running?

Multi-colored (red, blue, white) nothing on the roof, all integrated in the grills, rear and headlamps.  When I drove past them the driver and passenger were both in uniform and the
driver appeared to have a mic clipped to his lapel.

There used to be a Con Ed red suv that had a special FDNY/Con Ed logo, but that was years ago - not sure if it was equipped for emerg. response.  How, often do we hear a request for Con Ed forthwidth??

 

[BoroCall]

This afternoon I saw a NYC Dept. of Building SUV with emergency strobe lights, it was sitting curbside next to a PD having a major renovation.

I was not aware that NYC DOB had authorized emergency vehicles.  It is strange that they do, but that the Con Ed gas or electric emergency crews do not.

Con Ed does have emergency crews, the ones I see most often are big red step vans with EMERGENCY on them. I'm sure "fdce54" could give us more info on them

Yes, I see those Con Ed red emergency trucks all over, but the "emergency" on the truck has to do with the equipment on board - as they only have yellow lights on there roofs.

 

[fdce54]

The Con Ed vehicles that have emergency markings on them have permits to take the vehicle on a parkway when responding to a gas or electric emergency. They still have to obey all traffic regulations such as red lights, stop signs and speed regulations. The emergency stickers indicate to the police dept that these vehicles have permits.

 

[BoroCall]

The Con Ed vehicles that have emergency markings on them have permits to take the vehicle on a parkway when responding to a gas or electric emergency. They still have to obey all traffic regulations such as red lights, stop signs and speed regulations. The emergency stickers indicate to the police dept that these vehicles have permits.

If a Con Ed truck is RED, why isn't that enough - the color of the truck should denote that it's a Con Ed Emergency truck - why does the truck require a permit?  Non of the FDNY vehicles require permits for parkways.

When the FDNY command at a scene wants a rush on Con Ed, how are they to get it if the Red Trucks do not have response authorization?

 

[Brooklynalex32]

Its called government doing what they do best?

 

[fdce54]

The Con Ed vehicles that have emergency markings on them have permits to take the vehicle on a parkway when responding to a gas or electric emergency. They still have to obey all traffic regulations such as red lights, stop signs and speed regulations. The emergency stickers indicate to the police dept that these vehicles have permits.

If a Con Ed truck is RED, why isn't that enough - the color of the truck should denote that it's a Con Ed Emergency truck - why does the truck require a permit?  Non of the FDNY vehicles require permits for parkways.

When the FDNY command at a scene wants a rush on Con Ed, how are they to get it if the Red Trucks do not have response authorization?

First of all Con Ed is a private company, not a city agency and therefore does not have the rights that these city agencies do. If the Fire Dept forces a door to an apt for a gas leak, that is public safety. If Con Ed (or any utility company) were to do that, it is breaking and entering. The red wagons are electric splicers. The red color is a throw back to the days of gas lighting and wooden gas mains and the predecessors of Con Ed actually had red fire fighting vehicles that responded to gas fires. For whatever reason, these emergency splice rigs have been allowed to remain red. All other emergency response vehicles are the standard Con Ed colors.

 

[BoroCall]

The Con Ed vehicles that have emergency markings on them have permits to take the vehicle on a parkway when responding to a gas or electric emergency. They still have to obey all traffic regulations such as red lights, stop signs and speed regulations. The emergency stickers indicate to the police dept that these vehicles have permits.

If a Con Ed truck is RED, why isn't that enough - the color of the truck should denote that it's a Con Ed Emergency truck - why does the truck require a permit?  Non of the FDNY vehicles require permits for parkways.

When the FDNY command at a scene wants a rush on Con Ed, how are they to get it if the Red Trucks do not have response authorization?

First of all Con Ed is a private company, not a city agency and therefore does not have the rights that these city agencies do. If the Fire Dept forces a door to an apt for a gas leak, that is public safety. If Con Ed (or any utility company) were to do that, it is breaking and entering. The red wagons are electric splicers. The red color is a throw back to the days of gas lighting and wooden gas mains and the predecessors of Con Ed actually had red fire fighting vehicles that responded to gas fires. For whatever reason, these emergency splice rigs have been allowed to remain red. All other emergency response vehicles are the standard Con Ed colors.

If I'm not mistaken Con Ed has a contract with the City. Yes, I realize they are private.  However, the City has given Con Ed the responsibility to provide and maintain electric & gas
supply and to rapid response to gas & electric emergencies.  So, there should be specific Con Ed vehicles & crews 24/7 that are an authorized emergency vehicles.  I know there was somesort of partnership development between the FDNY & Con Ed and those Con Ed vehicles & crews operated under FDNY authority - not sure if that still exists. 

 

[manlt]

Con Ed and National Grid are not contracted by the City.  They are private companies that provide utility services.  They own and maintain their own infrastructure.  There are sections of the Rockaways that get their electric from LIPA.
As a utility company, they legally can not put emergency lights and sirens on their vehicles.  Not authorized under state law.  Also, something they probably don't want to do anyway.  Would have to train as emergency drivers and then worry about abuse, accidents, etc.
DOB has workers on duty 24/7.  After business hours, it is scaled back  and they respond citywide.  They are called to the scene of operations and dangerous building conditions as needed.  Most DOB cars I have scene do not have lights.  Could have been a supervisor.

 

[fdce54]

The Con Ed vehicles that have emergency markings on them have permits to take the vehicle on a parkway when responding to a gas or electric emergency. They still have to obey all traffic regulations such as red lights, stop signs and speed regulations. The emergency stickers indicate to the police dept that these vehicles have permits.

If a Con Ed truck is RED, why isn't that enough - the color of the truck should denote that it's a Con Ed Emergency truck - why does the truck require a permit?  Non of the FDNY vehicles require permits for parkways.

When the FDNY command at a scene wants a rush on Con Ed, how are they to get it if the Red Trucks do not have response authorization?

First of all Con Ed is a private company, not a city agency and therefore does not have the rights that these city agencies do. If the Fire Dept forces a door to an apt for a gas leak, that is public safety. If Con Ed (or any utility company) were to do that, it is breaking and entering. The red wagons are electric splicers. The red color is a throw back to the days of gas lighting and wooden gas mains and the predecessors of Con Ed actually had red fire fighting vehicles that responded to gas fires. For whatever reason, these emergency splice rigs have been allowed to remain red. All other emergency response vehicles are the standard Con Ed colors.

If I'm not mistaken Con Ed has a contract with the City. Yes, I realize they are private.  However, the City has given Con Ed the responsibility to provide and maintain electric & gas
supply and to rapid response to gas & electric emergencies.  So, there should be specific Con Ed vehicles & crews 24/7 that are an authorized emergency vehicles.  I know there was somesort of partnership development between the FDNY & Con Ed and those Con Ed vehicles & crews operated under FDNY authority - not sure if that still exists.

The New York State Public Service Commission assigns the service franchises to the utility companies and can pull these franchises away and assign them to another utility if they deem necessary as what happened on Long Island a few years back. Con Ed established emergency response groups maybe 15 years ago, one for electric initially and later one for gas and possibly one for steam in Manhattan. Their job is to respond to large scale utility emergencies, set up a command post and serve as communicator. There are two of these vehicles assigned to gas, one covers Manhattan and Queens, the other the Bronx and Westchester. I don't know how many electric has. The supervisor of the gas, electric or steam crew is the incident commander. I am not aware of any contract with the city. These response groups work in partnership with the city and Con Ed provides training to the Fire Dept for dealing with these emergencies until a crew can respond.  The city will not give utility companies permits for lights and sirens as they feel their emergency responders can secure the area if need be to make it safe until a utility crew arrives.

 

[BoroCall]

The Con Ed vehicles that have emergency markings on them have permits to take the vehicle on a parkway when responding to a gas or electric emergency. They still have to obey all traffic regulations such as red lights, stop signs and speed regulations. The emergency stickers indicate to the police dept that these vehicles have permits.

If a Con Ed truck is RED, why isn't that enough - the color of the truck should denote that it's a Con Ed Emergency truck - why does the truck require a permit?  Non of the FDNY vehicles require permits for parkways.

When the FDNY command at a scene wants a rush on Con Ed, how are they to get it if the Red Trucks do not have response authorization?

First of all Con Ed is a private company, not a city agency and therefore does not have the rights that these city agencies do. If the Fire Dept forces a door to an apt for a gas leak, that is public safety. If Con Ed (or any utility company) were to do that, it is breaking and entering. The red wagons are electric splicers. The red color is a throw back to the days of gas lighting and wooden gas mains and the predecessors of Con Ed actually had red fire fighting vehicles that responded to gas fires. For whatever reason, these emergency splice rigs have been allowed to remain red. All other emergency response vehicles are the standard Con Ed colors.

If I'm not mistaken Con Ed has a contract with the City. Yes, I realize they are private.  However, the City has given Con Ed the responsibility to provide and maintain electric & gas
supply and to rapid response to gas & electric emergencies.  So, there should be specific Con Ed vehicles & crews 24/7 that are an authorized emergency vehicles.  I know there was somesort of partnership development between the FDNY & Con Ed and those Con Ed vehicles & crews operated under FDNY authority - not sure if that still exists.

The New York State Public Service Commission assigns the service franchises to the utility companies and can pull these franchises away and assign them to another utility if they deem necessary as what happened on Long Island a few years back. Con Ed established emergency response groups maybe 15 years ago, one for electric initially and later one for gas and possibly one for steam in Manhattan. Their job is to respond to large scale utility emergencies, set up a command post and serve as communicator. There are two of these vehicles assigned to gas, one covers Manhattan and Queens, the other the Bronx and Westchester. I don't know how many electric has. The supervisor of the gas, electric or steam crew is the incident commander. I am not aware of any contract with the city. These response groups work in partnership with the city and Con Ed provides training to the Fire Dept for dealing with these emergencies until a crew can respond.  The city will not give utility companies permits for lights and sirens as they feel their emergency responders can secure the area if need be to make it safe until a utility crew arrives.

Then what is the point of any forthwidth request when the IC knows Con Ed cannot get there any faster then any other civilian vehicle - in fact, by stating forthwidth (with a rush) that would give the vehicle crew a hurry up and get there and make for dangerous vehicle operations (driving) while en route.  Also, what about the Fire Patrol, are they not also private?

 

[raybrag]

Also, what about the Fire Patrol, are they not also private?

No. They are GONE.

 

[68jk09]

BORO i would say that the Fire Patrol when in existence they were condsidered part of a Firefighting Force rather than a Utility Company, they were a Local in the IAFF.... as far as the IC making a fortwith request the point is not too make the Driver speed up but to get the Con Ed Dispatcher to possibly shuffle assignments around to get a priority response.

 

[BoroCall]

BORO i would say that the Fire Patrol when in existence they were condsidered part of a Firefighting Force rather than a Utility Company, they were a Local in the IAFF.... as far as the IC making a fortwith request the point is not too make the Driver speed up but to get the Con Ed Dispatcher to possibly shuffle assignments around to get a priority response.

Hi Chief, If the IC is making a forthwith request, doesn't that mean that Con Ed is required on the scene as conditions are serious or worsening, and in some cases life threatening?

I guess what I'm getting at in all this is that if the DOB has emergency light's and I'm presuming a siren on what might be a supervisor's vehicle to get to the site of a building in dangerous condition, then shouldn't it be equally important for Con Ed to get to/be at the site of it's corresponding dangerous condition?

Also, I understand that the NYC FP was part of the IAFF, but does the IAFF have the power to authorize the FP as emergency vehicles and if not, being private who/where did the authorization come from.

I did not realize that my sighting and report of, would creating a conversation, I do hope I'm not boring anyone, but I do find everyone's reply's very informative.

 

[FDNY793727]

In addition to what has been said above, the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law has a specific definition of "authorized emergency vehicle" which is "Every ambulance, police vehicle or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle, county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of the United States." So having a utility or DOB vehicle operate as an emergency vehicle is against the state VTL.

As far as the lights, as per the NYS VTL, "One or more red or combination red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be affixed to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency." However, if it's not an emergency vehicle, it shouldn't have the flashing red and white lights. Blue lights can only be used volunteer firefighter's vehicles or by fire/police/EMS vehicles for "rear projection" only. It's the same thing with a siren, they can only be used on an "authorized emergency vehicle."

I'm not saying this necessarily stops any city/local agencies from doing this, I'm just mentioning what's in the state VTL.

 

[BoroCall]

In addition to what has been said above, the New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law has a specific definition of "authorized emergency vehicle" which is "Every ambulance, police vehicle or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle, county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of the United States." So having a utility or DOB vehicle operate as an emergency vehicle is against the state VTL.

As far as the lights, as per the NYS VTL, "One or more red or combination red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be affixed to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency." However, if it's not an emergency vehicle, it shouldn't have the flashing red and white lights. Blue lights can only be used volunteer firefighter's vehicles or by fire/police/EMS vehicles for "rear projection" only. It's the same thing with a siren, they can only be used on an "authorized emergency vehicle."

I'm not saying this necessarily stops any city/local agencies from doing this, I'm just mentioning what's in the state VTL.

Thanks much for the info - I used to almost have this stuff memorized.  I was informed once, some years ago that do to the City's population - the Mayor & City Council have authority over & above the NYS VTL and have the authority to authorize as deemed required, I never really dug in to find out how valid the info was.

 

[FDNY793727]

Thanks much for the info - I used to almost have this stuff memorized.  I was informed once, some years ago that do to the City's population - the Mayor & City Council have authority over & above the NYS VTL and have the authority to authorize as deemed required, I never really dug in to find out how valid the info was.

Right, Section 1642 of the VTL deals with "Additional traffic regulations in cities having a population in excess of one million" and says "local laws...shall supersede the provisions of this chapter...with respect to the following enumerated subjects" with section 6 being "Operation of authorized emergency vehicles." The NYC DOT Traffic Rules define an "emergency vehicle (authorized)" as "every police vehicle, fire vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, and every other emergency vehicle as defined in ?101 of the Vehicle and Traffic Law," with ?101 being the above definition. So it seems the city Traffic Rules use the same definition as the state does.

Again, related to the lights, the city Traffic Rules state in Section 4-09 (c): "No operator of a motorcycle or motor vehicle, other than authorized emergency vehicles, shall operate said vehicle when displaying other than white or yellow lights visible from in front of the vehicle. No operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall operate said vehicle when displaying other than white or yellow lights visible from in front of the vehicle except when actually engaged in emergency service".

The only mention of utility vehicles in the city Traffic Rules relating to this, that I can find anyway, is under Section 4-13 Truck Routes. The exceptions under part (2) are: "These rules do not apply to authorized emergency vehicles and authorized public utility company vehicles engaged in an emergency operation as defined in ?114-b of the Vehicle and Traffic Law," even though utility vehicles can't engage in emergency operations according to ?114-b. Still, this part only says utility vehicles could violate rules on truck routes. Also, I'm no expert, there's probably someone else who can answer more definitively.

 

[BoroCall]

Thanks much for the info - I used to almost have this stuff memorized.  I was informed once, some years ago that do to the City's population - the Mayor & City Council have authority over & above the NYS VTL and have the authority to authorize as deemed required, I never really dug in to find out how valid the info was.

Right, Section 1642 of the VTL deals with "Additional traffic regulations in cities having a population in excess of one million" and says "local laws...shall supersede the provisions of this chapter...with respect to the following enumerated subjects" with section 6 being "Operation of authorized emergency vehicles." The NYC DOT Traffic Rules define an "emergency vehicle (authorized)" as "every police vehicle, fire vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, and every other emergency vehicle as defined in ?101 of the Vehicle and Traffic Law," with ?101 being the above definition. So it seems the city Traffic Rules use the same definition as the state does.

Again, related to the lights, the city Traffic Rules state in Section 4-09 (c): "No operator of a motorcycle or motor vehicle, other than authorized emergency vehicles, shall operate said vehicle when displaying other than white or yellow lights visible from in front of the vehicle. No operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall operate said vehicle when displaying other than white or yellow lights visible from in front of the vehicle except when actually engaged in emergency service".

The only mention of utility vehicles in the city Traffic Rules relating to this, that I can find anyway, is under Section 4-13 Truck Routes. The exceptions under part (2) are: "These rules do not apply to authorized emergency vehicles and authorized public utility company vehicles engaged in an emergency operation as defined in ?114-b of the Vehicle and Traffic Law," even though utility vehicles can't engage in emergency operations according to ?114-b. Still, this part only says utility vehicles could violate rules on truck routes. Also, I'm no expert, there's probably someone else who can answer more definitively.

I guess this City is so big, with so many agencies City, State & Fed. That each agency makes up there own rules/procedures. I saw a white mini van totally unmarked, reg. passenger plates with all sorts of emerg. lights going.  Have absolutely no idea from what agency.

Many thanks for all your input.