snorkels vs tower ladders

[grumpy grizzly]

Chicago squads do a great job, they put that short wheel-base 55' in some amazing areas. IMHO they need a fourth squad company. Sq 5 the south side squad covers an area from 3900S to 13400S, 7200W to 3400E.. They cover 11 Battalions and 2 Districts. To use this application properly you have to cut their response area in half! West side of Chitown is Sq 1 from 0S/N tp 6000W, Sq 2 covers everything else it seems. Snorkel applications need to adapt! No good if you are the fifth aerial appliance to arrive because of distance. I have no bitch with snorkel operations, you see what others cannot. But: Things go bad and your are stuck up there because of a malfunction. Got to weigh the pluses with the losses, go with the pluses! But a  TL will make this arguement moot, you have an adquate water supply , and you have that ladder.

 

[georged4997]

I drove Bridgeports truck for 9yrs. It had a detroit 350 diesel,Way underpowered. The turn table
was off 5 degrees. It was ordered for somewhere in texas, And when it came in they didnt want
it. We had a tuff time getting through the streets and making the turns. There was times we had
the upper boom lockout on us. There was a bleeder valve in the bucket and lower boom that
we had to use till we again had rpm s and was able to operate the bucket. The first airhorn that
was put on the truck was from a train that one of the members got. The bucket would drift at
times. Im trying to remember the length and overhang. Maybe 32 feet long with a 4foot over
hang on the front and 6foot over the back. We had a wye set up for inch and a half hose in the
bucket with one 10 foot length folded. a 6 ft ceiling hook was mounted to the upper boom. We
had a guy fall off once and landed on his head while going around a corner,He never went back
to fighting fires. We also took a badly burned 14 yr old girl out of a window and the dam boom
locked out on us. There was a crank on the bottom turntable that at times someone had to crank
us away from wires when we lost power to the upper boom. I have to say only a few drove it and it sure seen its share of fires. It was made in 1976. Just to add to the above, I have to remember, The cables
had to be replaced every 7yrs? The distance from the floor to top of upper boom was 11ft 3inches
over the cab. The white paint on the boom would turn grey in different sections when we had
a good smokey job. A i remember we had to use a certain paint that costs a bit to use.

 

[nfd2004]

Many of us remember those American LaFrance Towers that FDNYs Ladders 14 and 163 had. I'm sure driving up 5th Ave in Harlem wasn't too bad. But when that huge 14 Truck had to turn into those narrow side streets with cars parked all over the place and kids running around, it was no easy job.

I buffed a lot of Harlem jobs when 14 Truck was using that rig. I am amazed at how those guys got that rig in and operated it. Plain and simple, "those guys were good".

Also I wanted to mention that I think Newark had two snorkels, and Jersey City and Elizabeth each had one. I remember the front overhang on Jersey City's was about the length of a normal size car.

I think there is one left in Ct still operating. I think it's in Cheshire but they plan to replace it.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

I thought L-14 was a 1980 Sutphen, 100' aerial with a 1250 GPM pump and Ladder 119 was a similiar 1981 model.

 

[jmag228]

Rosenbauer is reportedly the Chicago squad/snorkel manufacturer.

 

[nfd2004]

It was at one time. That's correct. But after that Ladders 14 and 163 got these huge ALF Tower Units. Except for maybe the Super Pumper and Super Tender Units, they had to be the largest ladder trucks without a tiller that the City of New York ever had.

My guess is that they served the FDNY during the 1980s.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

U R RITE, TL 163 did have an ALF rig, and yes it was huge. Did a search, found them setting up at a job in the Bronx.

 

[nfd2004]

Also 14 Truck Grump.

I have pictures but don't know how to post them.

 

[BCR]

There was a YouTube video i saw somewhere, the video was taken when one of the alf reAr mounts was being replaced by a 95 ft Mack/aerialscope. They pulled the new scope into a parking lot next to the alf and at the same time they raced to see who could get the ladder up and out the quickest. The alf rear mount was quicker than the Mack aerial scope but not by to much. Those rearmounts are only 3 section ladders no matter where you are those are some big trucks but nothing compared to a 100 ft snorkel. Just a boom folded in two 50 feet long, over hang both ends.i remember talking with a guy a few years back who's father was a LT on a 100 ft snorkel maxim. He was saying how far out the boom stuck in front of the cab. He said his father had a new driver who only had about a week in the seat when he thought he had it down he got a little cocky and wasn't paying attention . Hit the back of a tractor trailer at a red light . No major damage other than some scratches and a square hole in the trailer he hit but I don't think he drove much again, those trucks take a sharp indivdual to handle

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Why does L-14 appear to be the experiment house? They got the Sutphen, and then it was the ALF.

 

[XPFD3]

Philadelphia has been running Snorkels since 1966.  The most interesting one was the 1968 Calavar Firebird.  The boom was 125' and both the upper and lower booms were 2 sections with one boom telescoping out of the other.  Ground ladders were in racks that had to unfolded hydraulically to get to the ladders.  It was built on a FWD cab forward chassis and looked kind of like a Seagrave of that era. It was assigned to Ladder 2 at 4th & Arch in Olde City, down the street from Betsy Ross House.  It was too complicated, constantly in the shop and only remained in front line service for a few years.  Ladder 2 still runs a Snorkel today.

 

[nfd2004]

Why does L-14 appear to be the experiment house? They got the Sutphen, and then it was the ALF.

  That is a good question and I know that "I couldn't answer that". BUT, when the First Tower Ladders for the FDNY were put into service. Guess who got the first two ? Ladders 1 and Ladder 14.

 

[Atlas]

That is a very simple question to answer - FDNY Ladder 14 is located at the foot of the Tri-Boro Bridge where the cover Upper Manhattan, the entire Bronx, &  North Queens. Ladder 119 is right off the BQE & the lower East River Bridges.  It would be hard to pick two better locations.

 

[Atlas]

As far as the "125' Fire Bird"  - there was one in Nassau County for years.

 

[BCR]

Found this ad for a 150 footer, claims 1000 gpm at 125'' at any position, horizantial reach to 78 ft, 1000 pound capacity, 180 degree water coverage. Those ladder racks are something else.
In all seriousness I'm suprised with the advances in metals, hydraulics, and engineering that there are not ladders longer than 100 feet in service in high rise city's like New York something in the 150' range, after all the buildings are only getting taller the ability to go up higher to make rescues, especially manhattan with the window washers

 

[raybrag]

Philly's Firebird (from pafirenews.net):

and a Philly Snorkel on an ALF chassis (from yngfire.com):

 

[Atlas]

I do know that FDNY did look into the Fire Bird & some of the Russian made apparatus back in the early 90's. But they seemed not to be happy with what they saw. 

 

[Massfireman]

ALF had their own version of the Snorkel it was called the AeroChief it was manufactured for about 10 years.

 

[336]

This was in our barn previous to me being a member. The beast was replaced in 1992 by a 95' E-One Tower that is now being replaced by a brand new 100' Pierce Quint Tower, delivery around  Halloween this year.

Not many of the guys that were active when the snorkel was in service have much good to say about it, right or wrong tool for the job I don't know but I suspect like most things its all in how you use it.



Reg.# 7-1-1851

1970 ALF 1000 Series Aero Chief 80 Quint from Webster, NY

Webster purchased the first 1000 Series Aero Chief. This rig currently serves Sodus Center, NY

http://www.aerochief.com/page6.html

 

[Massfireman]

Great compilation of Aero Chiefs, I remember the Andover and Concord units, the Andover was often compared to the neighboring Lawrence Snorkel. The Snorkel was easier to navigate the streets because the front overhang was not as large.

I know of one other aero chief that was in service in Sanford Maine.