The Reason Why Ladder Companies are not CFRD first responders?

Joined
Apr 15, 2012
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Back in the mid 1990's when the CFRD first responder program was begun the Ladder companies were supposed to be trained and used as EMS first responders just as the Engines respond, however because of a demand for extra pay or compensation the Ladder companies were not made part of the CFRD program. Is that still the case?
    In most other cities the Engines and Ladders share the first responder work load. One of the most foolish things that I can think of is not using Ladder companies on the Segment 1,2 or 3 serious EMS emergencies that the Engines respond to, (especially if it is a Segment 1 call).  If the Engine is unavailable in a double company house  instead of sending the Ladder company, the second due Engine is called to respond from a further distance away, which can make a difference in a life or death emergency.
 
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Nov 3, 2007
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Assigned to an Engine and having gone thru the introduction of CFRD into the job, I don't ever remember trucks being considered for inclusion into the first responder program.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
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At the inception of the program the plans were also to have the Ladder companies trained as first responders but it never actually happened. The "training for this program was tentatively planned for September 1998" for the Ladder companies. The Engine companies had already been trained as CFRD responders by then. 
 
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Mar 5, 2007
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MP1234 not to burst your bubble but not all members of the job are trained, those hired after 2000 or 2001 have to be cfrd and also maintain such throughout career, many members of truck companies are not cfrd and have not been trained. Now as senior men retire eventually the job will have all cfrd certified but that is a few years away at best. There are still a few engine fireman that for whatever reason are not cfrd but still respond to the runs but dont get paid or perform cfrd.
 
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Jun 7, 2010
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You are correct Mac, should have thought about the statement first. I do know some engine men also that are not CFRD trained, and its like throwing away a couple of thousand dollars a year but still going on those runs.
 
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Feb 27, 2007
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I know guys in the engine that are not CFRD. They sit on the rig and don't get the mark on EMS runs. Engines now respond to lockouts too for EMS so they can do both. Trucks used to back in the day!
 
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Jul 25, 2010
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Unfortunately, it all came down to finances.  Doesn't it always?  When the First Responder program was first thrust upon the membership, we were promised significant financial rewards for the productivity it represented.  Existing Engine members were to be trained first, then truck members later.  Meanwhile, everyone going through Proby School would receive the training.  Well, when the financial details were finally released,  it was decided that only CFR-D trained members working in Engines would receive the stipend.  3%.  I was the delegate in 11 Truck at the time and remember heated exchanges at the meetings and personally with the Manhattan Trustee.  My position was that we, as FDNY members, had never been paid for what we did...but rather for the training we brought to the table.  We were a resource, and if the city chose not to use that resource, it should not be reflected in our compensation.  After all, did members of the busiest trucks make more money than those in the slower companies?  No.  Again, if the City chose not to use a particular company on a particular tour, that company should not be penalized for that choice.  Beyond that, I felt it was incredibly unfair for two guys to receive the same training in Proby School, then...as a direct result of an administrative decision (their respective assignments)...one should get a 3% raise over the other.  (one assigned to an Engine, the other to a Truck).  Our arguments fell on deaf ears...and it was decided that only Engines would receive the 3%...which, by the way was considered a pittance for the savings it represented for the City.  The alternative would have been to give 1.5% to everyone...and I'm sure they felt that there would have been even a great uproar over that.  A select few classes of Truckies were allowed to take the course.  I took it as a member of Ladder 133.  Stay safe.
 
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Aug 4, 2009
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It is a part of our contract now for a few years that we have to maintain our CFRD cert. I am part of what you mentioned.  Took the class in proby school and was assigned to a truck. We are still required to refresh every 3 years. (at least its OT).  The only time I get the 3% is when I work in the engine for a tour. The truck can get the mark for the tour if they do arrive first at an accident or get a verbal. But they don't make it easy for the boss with all the extra paperwork and proof that you did something.
 
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