Tour Commander

BoroCall said:
enginecap said:
Wow, I?m exhausted reading about it.  It?s one more useless chief at the fire.  Here?s the deal.....CWTC changes every day.  It is a staff chief of some sort....he cannot be on light duty (lord knows why), and he responds whenever he feels like it for all intents and purposes.  His major role would be to talk with the media.  Hopefully he stays as far away as possible from CP
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LOL - Ok, so it has been changed from yesteryear.  Now, when two C's, lets say 6 & 7 go to the same job, do they flip a coin to determine who will be in charge?

Most of us don?t know the answer to that and none of us care.  These cars rarely have anything to do with the fire suppression.  The first due BC is pretty much running the job with the first due DC. 

I do remember very well seeing about a dozen white helmets at any one job - and looking at there front pieces to figure out it out! :-\
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enginecap said:
BoroCall said:
enginecap said:
Wow, I?m exhausted reading about it.  It?s one more useless chief at the fire.  Here?s the deal.....CWTC changes every day.  It is a staff chief of some sort....he cannot be on light duty (lord knows why), and he responds whenever he feels like it for all intents and purposes.  His major role would be to talk with the media.  Hopefully he stays as far away as possible from CP
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LOL - Ok, so it has been changed from yesteryear.  Now, when two C's, lets say 6 & 7 go to the same job, do they flip a coin to determine who will be in charge?

Most of us don?t know the answer to that and none of us care.  These cars rarely have anything to do with the fire suppression.  The first due BC is pretty much running the job with the first due DC. 

I do remember very well seeing about a dozen white helmets at any one job - and looking at there front pieces to figure out it out! :-\
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This forum is an excellent informational and learning site, with a great many with a good deal of experience - as such, being that I have been out of the loop since shortly after 9/11 - and reading the postings on many of the jobs it naturally brings up my curiosity of what used to be and what is now and how & when the changes occurred.

So, I hope you will please excuse me If I am asking questions that may be immaterial.  I am just trying to get a good understanding for when I read the excellent rundowns posted.
 
68jk09 said:
manhattan said:
Does anyone (Chief JK, maybe?) know if there's a Department Order or some official FD statement covering this question and the history behind it?
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I was never at the level to be involved in being a Tour commander but even back when i was working it seemed the protocols changed from time to time...i don't ever remember a Dept Order on it  or saw other paper work on the subject....not to say that there wasn't any circulated on the Staff level.
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Thank you.
 
Their response duties are actually in The Regulations of the Uniformed Force.  Mandatory response on 3rd alarms.  Other fires and emergencies at their discretion. 
Boro, the "A" with the car number does not represent rank.  It represents a subdivision of that car.  Car 6 is the Manhattan Borough Commander, 6A is his Assistant Borough Commander.  The other Borough Commanders don't have an assistant, there are no "Alphas"
Car 36 is for Chaplains,  different letters are designation of whose who.
 
manlt said:
Their response duties are actually in The Regulations of the Uniformed Force.  Mandatory response on 3rd alarms.  Other fires and emergencies at their discretion. 
Boro, the "A" with the car number does not represent rank.  It represents a subdivision of that car.  Car 6 is the Manhattan Borough Commander, 6A is his Assistant Borough Commander.  The other Borough Commanders don't have an assistant, there are no "Alphas"
Car 36 is for Chaplains,  different letters are designation of whose who.
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Ok, but if there is a Citywide Tour Commander on duty, then why would a Boro Commander be responding to a job?
 
It all can overlap.  Say it is a weekday and the Boro Commander is working and another staff chief has the City Wide.  The Boro Commander would respond in his own boro,  If the Commander is off that day, than the Citywide would respond.  City Wide could also respond, even if Boro is working and responding,  his call (doesn't have to).  The Boro Commanders are also in the rotation for City Wide.  If SI has the duty, they would respond to Brooklyn if Brooklyn Boro was off or unable to respond.
Manhattan has Boro and Deputy Boro, both usually reposnd, especially if high profile, wether they are "on duty or not"
There is also a 4th alarm chief that repsonds on the 4th in addition to the Boro or Tour Commander responding on 3rd.  Right now it is the two senior 3 star boro commanders.  In that case, they are the 4th Alarm Chief.  Same car numbers.
Safety (car 12) and other 12 cars, plus Safety Battalion, are not reponding in a command responsiblity, respond as Safety Chiefs.
 
manlt said:
It all can overlap.  Say it is a weekday and the Boro Commander is working and another staff chief has the City Wide.  The Boro Commander would respond in his own boro,  If the Commander is off that day, than the Citywide would respond.  City Wide could also respond, even if Boro is working and responding,  his call (doesn't have to).  The Boro Commanders are also in the rotation for City Wide.  If SI has the duty, they would respond to Brooklyn if Brooklyn Boro was off or unable to respond.
Manhattan has Boro and Deputy Boro, both usually reposnd, especially if high profile, wether they are "on duty or not"
There is also a 4th alarm chief that repsonds on the 4th in addition to the Boro or Tour Commander responding on 3rd.  Right now it is the two senior 3 star boro commanders.  In that case, they are the 4th Alarm Chief.  Same car numbers.
Safety (car 12) and other 12 cars, plus Safety Battalion, are not reponding in a command responsiblity, respond as Safety Chiefs.
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Ok, thanks very much - your description is pretty much the same as it used to be, what was a bit confusing was the BX 4th the other night, when I heard both C's 6 & 7 responding - I was curious as to why both Cars were going to the same job.  When FC gives a PR, it used to read by order of the Citywide Tour Commander Car.......  Now I'm hearing by order of C-# and the chiefs name (no reference to the Tour Commander).
 
I might of over looked it but the 4 th alarm Chiefs are , Chief of ops and?
 
During my years- The Chief of Department was on continuous duty from 0900 Monday to 1700 Friday. From 1700 Friday to 0900 Monday there was a 4th alarm chief. This duty then was performed by three 4 star AC's and one 3 star. The three 4 stars were Chief of Operations, Chief of Fire Prevention and the Chief of Support Services. The three star was the Assistant Chief of Operations.  The five Boro Commanders once every 2 weeks or so would work one City Wide Command Chief (CWCC) tour one weekday from 1700 hours to 0900 hours. The Deputy Assistant Chiefs would work as CWCC's on the weekends, 0900 Saturday to 0900 Sunday and 0900 Sunday to 0900 Monday with additional tours weekday nights when no Boro Commander was assigned. Manhattan and Brooklyn had 1 Boro Cmdr and 2 Dep. Boro Cmdr's, Queens, Bronx and S.I. had a Boro Cmdr and 1 Dep. Boro Cmdr. Also Staff Chief's assigned to Fire Prevention, Personnel, Training etc. would perform CWCC duties. In the Boro's the Commander and Deputy Commander's covered fire duty for their boro's from 0900 to 1700 weekdays. Around 1700 hours you would monitor the citywide freq. and when the CWCC went on the air (e.g. Car 6A to CW, 6A 10-8 (CWFD), you were relieved of fire duty response for your boro.
 
******* said:
During my years- The Chief of Department was on continuous duty from 0900 Monday to 1700 Friday. From 1700 Friday to 0900 Monday there was a 4th alarm chief. This duty then was performed by three 4 star AC's and one 3 star. The three 4 stars were Chief of Operations, Chief of Fire Prevention and the Chief of Support Services. The three star was the Assistant Chief of Operations.  The five Boro Commanders once every 2 weeks or so would work one City Wide Command Chief (CWCC) tour one weekday from 1700 hours to 0900 hours. The Deputy Assistant Chiefs would work as CWCC's on the weekends, 0900 Saturday to 0900 Sunday and 0900 Sunday to 0900 Monday with additional tours weekday nights when no Boro Commander was assigned. Manhattan and Brooklyn had 1 Boro Cmdr and 2 Dep. Boro Cmdr's, Queens, Bronx and S.I. had a Boro Cmdr and 1 Dep. Boro Cmdr. Also Staff Chief's assigned to Fire Prevention, Personnel, Training etc. would perform CWCC duties. In the Boro's the Commander and Deputy Commander's covered fire duty for their boro's from 0900 to 1700 weekdays. Around 1700 hours you would monitor the citywide freq. and when the CWCC went on the air (e.g. Car 6A to CW, 6A 10-8 (CWFD), you were relieved of fire duty response for your boro.
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My many thanks, I remember it pretty well.  Obviously, there have been a few changes with years gone by.
 
Do the four alarm chiefs rotate like the city wide tour commanders?
 
The 4th alarm chief would have the duty every 4th weekend. I had the duty for approx. 2 years. Mostly you had very few calls, although I did go to N.J. twice on mutual aide for storage tank fires and tragically the LOD deaths of 2 members. The COD had 4 aides, each working 24 hour tours. On the weekends the aide was quartered at E251 and he would call the 4th alarm chief when a response came in. I had my department car at home and would drive to 251 and pick up the aide for the response.
 
******* said:
The 4th alarm chief would have the duty every 4th weekend. I had the duty for approx. 2 years. Mostly you had very few calls, although I did go to N.J. twice on mutual aide for storage tank fires and tragically the LOD deaths of 2 members. The COD had 4 aides, each working 24 hour tours. On the weekends the aide was quartered at E251 and he would call the 4th alarm chief when a response came in. I had my department car at home and would drive to 251 and pick up the aide for the response.
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What would happen, should you be out with family and you got a response?
 
******* said:
The 4th alarm chief would have the duty every 4th weekend. I had the duty for approx. 2 years. Mostly you had very few calls, although I did go to N.J. twice on mutual aide for storage tank fires and tragically the LOD deaths of 2 members. The COD had 4 aides, each working 24 hour tours. On the weekends the aide was quartered at E251 and he would call the 4th alarm chief when a response came in. I had my department car at home and would drive to 251 and pick up the aide for the response.
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Actually, that's rather surprising, that your department car was not quartered with the aide at E251, and that the aide did'nt pick you up.
 
^^^ I think that Chief ******* was in a position to decide the best location for his car.
 
When I first went on the Staff in 1984 we couldn't take our car home, mine was qtr'd in a Bklyn house near where my aide lived. Around 1988 or so we received permission to take our cars home. We were pretty much on-call as an incident would dictate. As Manhattan Boro Commander I responded a number of times from home (e.g. a 4th transmitted for a 10-76 in the Empire State Building). It wasn't mandatory but up to the chief. As for the car being put up at 251 it was a lot faster for the aide to call me at home with my response then to 251 as to him driving to my house and then back into the city. 4th alarm duty some responses were mandatory, 1. Serious injury or death of department member 2. 4th alarm transmitted 3. Any incident which could bring discredit to the department 4. As directed by the Fire Commissioner. With this duty you could go to and where you wanted as you saw fit. 
 
68jk09 said:
^^^ I think that Chief ******* was in a position to decide the best location for his car.
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As the chief mentioned in his reply - It was not always up to the chief as to where the department car is kept.
 
******* said:
When I first went on the Staff in 1984 we couldn't take our car home, mine was qtr'd in a Bklyn house near where my aide lived. Around 1988 or so we received permission to take our cars home. We were pretty much on-call as an incident would dictate. As Manhattan Boro Commander I responded a number of times from home (e.g. a 4th transmitted for a 10-76 in the Empire State Building). It wasn't mandatory but up to the chief. As for the car being put up at 251 it was a lot faster for the aide to call me at home with my response then to 251 as to him driving to my house and then back into the city. 4th alarm duty some responses were mandatory, 1. Serious injury or death of department member 2. 4th alarm transmitted 3. Any incident which could bring discredit to the department 4. As directed by the Fire Commissioner. With this duty you could go to and where you wanted as you saw fit.
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Hi Chief - thanks much for your reply.  My thought was for the safety of the car (vandalism, etc.)  I am pretty sure I remember seeing a black staff chief's car in E251 back in the day, I'm guessing that was assigned to you.
 
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