1/9/22 Bronx 5th Alarm 10-77 Box 3162

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Dec 7, 2018
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I added up the manpower through the 5th Alarm. I didn’t count any units called after the PWH.
25 Engines X 5 = 125
23 Ladders X 6 = 138
1 Squad. x 6 = 6
1 Rescue. X 6 =. 6
17 Bn/Dv Chs X 2 = 34
Total. =. 309

That doesn’t count the guys on TSU, CTU, MSU, RACs, Air Recon, Tour Commander, a few 5 FF engines, etc.

So easily over 300 personnel responded just from the “fire side” alone before the PWH.

Many, many city departments don’t have that many people on their total roster!
TSU - 1FF
CTU - 3FF 1 Officer
MSU - 1FF
2 RACs? - 4FF
Air Recon - 1 BC - 1 Aide plus PD
 
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I’m curious, does the Chief of Training normally respond to incidents? I was just surprised he was the IC.
 
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I’m curious, does the Chief of Training normally respond to incidents? I was just surprised he was the IC.
The staff chiefs (deputy assistants & assistant chiefs) all rotate through the position of Citywide Tour Commander. 24/7/365 a Staff Chief is listed as the tour commander. They can respond to any call at any time, citywide, but they’d look silly showing up at a dumpster fire.

There are incidents he must respond to, with a 3rd Alarm fire or higher being the most common. He is the IC until, and if, he is relieved by a higher ranking chief (example: A deputy assistant chief could be relieved by an assistant chief who shows up. Everyone gets trumped by the chief of department!

There are approximately 20 staff chiefs on the department at any given time. So from Saturday morning at 08:00, the deputy assistant chief of fire prevention may relieve the assistant chief of training as citywide tour commander. Then Sunday at 08:00, the deputy assistant chief of preparedness may take over for the next 24 hours.

Every staff chief has served in the ranks from firefighter up to deputy chief, so they are more than qualified to be an IC.
 

mack

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The staff chiefs (deputy assistants & assistant chiefs) all rotate through the position of Citywide Tour Commander. 24/7/365 a Staff Chief is listed as the tour commander. They can respond to any call at any time, citywide, but they’d look silly showing up at a dumpster fire.

There are incidents he must respond to, with a 3rd Alarm fire or higher being the most common. He is the IC until, and if, he is relieved by a higher ranking chief (example: A deputy assistant chief could be relieved by an assistant chief who shows up. Everyone gets trumped by the chief of department!

There are approximately 20 staff chiefs on the department at any given time. So from Saturday morning at 08:00, the deputy assistant chief of fire prevention may relieve the assistant chief of training as citywide tour commander. Then Sunday at 08:00, the deputy assistant chief of preparedness may take over for the next 24 hours.

Every staff chief has served in the ranks from firefighter up to deputy chief, so they are more than qualified to be an IC.
Thanks Extra1&1. Excellent summary.

Note - As you explained - Staff Chiefs (DACs and ACs) are appointed positions from the Deputy Chief ranks -the highest FDNY promotional exam rank. The Chief of Department, COD, is also an appointed position. It used to be the highest Civil Service promotional rank but was changed approximately 1995 to be an appointed position.
 
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Thanks Extra1&1. Excellent summary.

Note - As you explained - Staff Chiefs (DACs and ACs) are appointed positions from the Deputy Chief ranks -the highest FDNY promotional exam rank. The Chief of Department, COD, is also an appointed position. It used to be the highest Civil Service promotional rank but was changed approximately 1995 to be an appointed position.
If I remember correctly, when there was a promotional list - the job had the option to pick from the highest 3 on that list
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong.....during regular working hours the Borough Commander responds on the 2nd and up ?
 
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The staff Chiefs rotate the citywide tour commander post with the exception of the Chief of Safety. I'm not sure if it is still that way
but he used to be assigned to a deputy fire commissioner. I was told that the reason was that the Safety Chief critiques incidents
and would know that no repercussion could come to him after an honest critique.
 
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Air recon was told that their services were not required. So technically, did not go to the incident.
I was never high enough up the chain as an IC to decide whether or not the Air Recon should or should not continue in but I always thought in some instances aside from their primary mission.... from their overhead vantage point they could be valuable providing info on traffic in the area both for Units still responding or for EMS leaving the scene enroute to a Hosp with a critical patient .....informing Units of the best looking routes to & from & any gridlock sightings etc ....JMO.
 
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VBCAPT welcome back hope all is well

According to my records I have 3rd Alarm City Wide
I am not FDNY, but this is my understanding from listening to the scanner, reading the rundowns on this forum 👍and reading the FDNY Ops Reference Manual by James Griffiths. By all means, someone correct me if I'm way off the mark.

There is a Citywide Tour Commander who is assigned for a 24 shift. This position is assigned to a DAC or AC (staff chiefs) 365 days a year. It is true that during normal business hours the Borough Commander for whichever borough the fire is in responds in place of the tour commander. Many times the borough commanders will respond on the 2nd Alarm, as it is "their yard" and perhaps, they want a reason to get out of the office ☺. However, they are not assigned until the 3rd Alarm if they did not respond earlier. Here's where it gets tricky. The Borough Commander for the Bronx may be on vacation or out sick. If a 3rd Alarm is transmitted in the Bronx, then it falls upon the assigned Citywide Tour Commander to respond. The tour commander may be the Brooklyn Borough Commander and he will respond. But there are a lot of DAC's & AC's on during normal business hours, so one or more chiefs may respond from a closer location (the fire in the Bronx may have the Queens Borough Commander or the Chief of the Fire Academy show up first). However, this would not absolve the tour commander from responding. He will still respond because the other chiefs may want to get back to work after the PWH is given and leave. At that point, the tour commander would be in charge until he saw fit to turn it over to the Deputy Chief (Division Chief), perhaps after the Under Control is given and assuming there are no other critical situations remaining that may be more appropriate for the tour commander to handle. "This is the mayor's neighborhood and he's coming up to show his presence." Of course the Deputy Chief could handle it, but the tour commander (a staff chief) may want to remain on location to meet the mayor. His call.

A five-alarm fire during the day may have 5 or 6 staff chiefs on location for various reasons. Also a 10-66 transmitted virtually anytime of any day including weekends will bring multiple chiefs, from home, to the scene. In my opinion, if I were a firefighter trapped in a building and was rescued, I would feel grateful to see 5 or 6 Staff Chiefs outside at 3 AM on a cold February morning. Why do they do it? Because they care, they are professionals and they have pride!!!
 
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I am not FDNY, but this is my understanding from listening to the scanner, reading the rundowns on this forum 👍and reading the FDNY Ops Reference Manual by James Griffiths. By all means, someone correct me if I'm way off the mark.

There is a Citywide Tour Commander who is assigned for a 24 shift. This position is assigned to a DAC or AC (staff chiefs) 365 days a year. It is true that during normal business hours the Borough Commander for whichever borough the fire is in responds in place of the tour commander. Many times the borough commanders will respond on the 2nd Alarm, as it is "their yard" and perhaps, they want a reason to get out of the office ☺. However, they are not assigned until the 3rd Alarm if they did not respond earlier. Here's where it gets tricky. The Borough Commander for the Bronx may be on vacation or out sick. If a 3rd Alarm is transmitted in the Bronx, then it falls upon the assigned Citywide Tour Commander to respond. The tour commander may be the Brooklyn Borough Commander and he will respond. But there are a lot of DAC's & AC's on during normal business hours, so one or more chiefs may respond from a closer location (the fire in the Bronx may have the Queens Borough Commander or the Chief of the Fire Academy show up first). However, this would not absolve the tour commander from responding. He will still respond because the other chiefs may want to get back to work after the PWH is given and leave. At that point, the tour commander would be in charge until he saw fit to turn it over to the Deputy Chief (Division Chief), perhaps after the Under Control is given and assuming there are no other critical situations remaining that may be more appropriate for the tour commander to handle. "This is the mayor's neighborhood and he's coming up to show his presence." Of course the Deputy Chief could handle it, but the tour commander (a staff chief) may want to remain on location to meet the mayor. His call.

A five-alarm fire during the day may have 5 or 6 staff chiefs on location for various reasons. Also a 10-66 transmitted virtually anytime of any day including weekends will bring multiple chiefs, from home, to the scene. In my opinion, if I were a firefighter trapped in a building and was rescued, I would feel grateful to see 5 or 6 Staff Chiefs outside at 3 AM on a cold February morning. Why do they do it? Because they care, they are professionals and they have pride!!!
Amen to that!!!
 
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The RAC citation has an ornamental stirring paddle in place of a trumpet or axe on the ribbon. I think Field Comm sticks with the bugle.
 
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