12/20/23 Queens 5th Alarm Box 7254

RCL

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Jul 11, 2022
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Way back The FDNY had the Fire Patrol if we remember those disbanded units. I believe each borough had one. These units would help mitigate water damage to the floors below using tarps canvas back then i believe. Redirect water using Dikes.
There was 3 at the time of their disbanding. 1 and 2 were in Manhattan and FP 3 was in Brooklyn. Going by FDNYtrucks photos. There may have been more at 1 point.
 

RCL

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Jul 11, 2022
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At its peak in the 1930s, they had atleast 10 stations
I dont doubt it. For some reason I remember 5 in the 80s or early 90s but could be wrong. Of all the commercial fires I was at in the early 90s I only remember seeing 1 at a Queens fire. That was a hardware store in Coleman Sq. At that time Blockbuster burned at least 3x, the old Wauldbaums or A and P burned at least once and there were several other stores along the Blvd that burned to varying degrees.
 
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I dont doubt it. For some reason I remember 5 in the 80s or early 90s but could be wrong. Of all the commercial fires I was at in the early 90s I only remember seeing 1 at a Queens fire. That was a hardware store in Coleman Sq. At that time Blockbuster burned at least 3x, the old Wauldbaums or A and P burned at least once and there were several other stores along the Blvd that burned to varying degrees.
I remember seeing at one point they had 16 but I checked and couldnt find anything on 16 stations.
 
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Chicago has used specials since the dawn of time. Beginning in late 1927 CFD began switching from 3-11 running cards to 5--11 cards. The Burlington Fire (1922 ?) ran out the card with a 3-11 and 10 specials. Ken Little was working at Main FAO on 1/21/57 when they hit a 5-11 and 8 specials for the Continental Grain Elevator at 93rd Street and the Calumet River. On the 8th special were 3 engines and 2 squads.
Love the Ken Little mention, he was a legend at Main FAO. And a heck of a nice guy, always had time to answer your questions. Helped author the 4 volume History of Chicago Firehouses from 1858 onwards.
 
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Way back The FDNY had the Fire Patrol if we remember those disbanded units. I believe each borough had one. These units would help mitigate water damage to the floors below using tarps canvas back then i believe. Redirect water using Dikes.
Chicago also had a Fire Insurance Patrol from 1871 until 1959. A book on its history is available @ Fire-Police-EMS.com.
 
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Love the Ken Little mention, he was a legend at Main FAO. And a heck of a nice guy, always had time to answer your questions. Helped author the 4 volume History of Chicago Firehouses from 1858 onwards.
Years ago I was in Chicago for a family reunion (wife's). I convinced Ken to give the crowd a bus tour of Chicago. Our first stop was an old church on the Northside burned down in the Great Fire. Inside, there's a wedding in progress. Ceremonies are temporarily halted while Ken gives us and the wedding party a short talk about the church's storied history.

While taking a break, Ken asks the bus driver( foreign born) where he lives. The guy says something like 2125 S. Archer Ave. Ken says "If you're standing on your front porch and look left to the corner it's S. 21st St. If you look to the right it's S. 22nd St. The driver looks at Ken like he just pulled a rabbit out of a hat as he shakes his head Yes. I'm thinking " Well Duh!"

Ken was an absolute treasure to the CFD. He knew everyone, what had happened and where everything was!
 
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Sep 25, 2013
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At its peak in the 1930s, they had atleast 10 stations
The New York Fire Patrol operated by the Association of Fire Insurance Companies from 1835 to 1883 had 4 units.
In 1883, these units became the NY Board of Fire Underwriters Fire Patrol 1 - 4, all in Manhattan.
Fire Patrol 5 and 7 were added later in Manhattan, and Fire Patrol 6 was added in the Bronx.
The Brooklyn Insurance Salvage Corps operated 3 units that merged into the NYBFU in 1911 as Fire Patrols 8, 9, and 10.

As units were disbanded, remaining units assumed the lower disbanded units number.

The insurance companies discontinued the last three Fire Patrol units in 2006.

The Model Cities program funded 5 salvage units from 1972 to 1991.
 
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Jul 27, 2021
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134
don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
 
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don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
That’s just the title… they are still ACs and DACs….

3rd Alarm Chief who had Citywide was 15A
4th Alarm Chief was 15
5th Alarm Chief was 4A

Any extension is an automatic extra engine & truck. Cockloft is supposed to be a automatic 2nd Alarm
 

RCL

Joined
Jul 11, 2022
Messages
325
don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
I cant explain the chief of training and fire academy other then to get 1st hand experience of what works and doesn't so they can develop real world scenarios to use for further training

The extra engine and truck is a case by case basis. The ic may feel they can handle the situation with just a little help and not tie up additional units. There are cases especially recently where they've gone straight to a 2nd.
 
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Mar 30, 2023
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don’t understand what the roll of the chief of training and the chief of the fire Academy at a fifth alarm what would be their responsibility

also, please explain the concept of requesting an extra engine and an extra truck. why not just go straight to the second alarm after the 1075
a extra E and T depends on the IC's decision, if they think they only need a special call instead of another alarm, they'll call for a Engine and Truck, but if the fire grows to the point that the 1st Alarm units on sence just ain't gonna cut it, then it goes to the 2-2.

Also with the CoT and CoFA, they can both be CWTC's on different nights, any Chief of a Unit (not the Battalions and Divisons and MAYBE the Borough Commanders) can be the CWTC on any given basis, there's been multiple times this month the Chief of Training has responded as the Citywide Tour Commander, once they arrive they become the IC until someone above them arrives (I.e. the COD). Since there in command its there discretion on if they'll PWH with the units they have on sence or go to a higher alarm, or Special call Appratus if its already at the 5-5, (the only special call above the 5-5 rule is a relativly new policy, only being implemented after the 8 Alarm Fire in Jackson Heights, Queens back in 2021) Usually there supposed to respond at the 4th Alarm I believe, Borough Commanders going on the 3rd. I hope this answers your question.

Not sure if this is the correct answer, anyone mind telling me if my answer is right?
 
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Battalions and Deputies are in a union. Deputy Assistants, Assistants, Chief of Department are not union a union. When promoted past deputy they are considered staff chiefs. Generally, a DAC or AC is assigned as the citywide tour commander (this includes borough commanders, chiefs of fire prevention & training, and any other staff chief).I believe there are about 20 +/- staff chiefs at any given time. The chief of operations is usually the 4th alarm chief and the COD may go on the 5th (situation dependent as rank has its privilege… as it should be). A deputy chief can cover as staff chief, but it’s a rare occurrence (2 - three alarm fires at the same time OR absolutely no staff chief available because of vacations, injury leave, sick call, etc.). A staff chief assigned to training today, could be moved to safety next week , and be the assistant chief of operations next year. Every staff chief came through the ranks and served in all positions, so they have a lot of knowledge and experience. There is always something to be done. The IC (COD, Chief of Ops, or whomever is in command). has the authority to move available staff chiefs as he sees fit. Example: If at a five alarm plus fire it’s 100 degrees with 90% humidity, and the IC feels it would be appropriate to assign a staff chief to rehab/medical/hospital transport sector he can do it! It’s done that way all around the country. Staff chiefs should not be viewed as “someone who specializes in training only or fire prevention only”. Staff chiefs are senior members with a lot of experience and knowledge. Being that they are non-union, they are charged in the overall smooth operation of the department and all staff chiefs are answerable to the COD, who is answerable to the fire commissioner, who is answerable to the mayor, who is answerable to the public/voters. These chiefs have spent their career in the fire service, they usually have a passion for the job and they want things to go well!
 
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Jul 27, 2021
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received and understood I understand the whole incident command system. I just wondering if that’s how they’re being used and I understand now that they’re probably being utilized in that sort of aspect especially at the planning level. Thank you.
 

dan

Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
131
There is no rhyme or reason with the Staff Chiefs anymore....Command Chief goes at his discretion on 2-2, has to go on 3-3.....COO and COD on 4-4 but do what they please. As far as SOC and Safety....Usually they go to 4-4 and higher more so in an unofficial capacity....nothing official as part of an ICS structure. 12-B is the Safety Liaison BC who represents Safety Command at 3-3 and higher with SB01.
 
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Nov 1, 2019
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Chicago has used specials since the dawn of time. Beginning in late 1927 CFD began switching from 3-11 running cards to 5--11 cards. The Burlington Fire (1922 ?) ran out the card with a 3-11 and 10 specials. Ken Little was working at Main FAO on 1/21/57 when they hit a 5-11 and 8 specials for the Continental Grain Elevator at 93rd Street and the Calumet River. On the 8th special were 3 engines and 2 squads.
Speaking of Ken Little

 
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