B-25 STRUCK EMPIRE STATE BLDG 70 YEARS AGO

[CVILLE7111]

With all of the member knowledge out there, it might be interesting to see someone post a comparison of what the rundown for this job would have looked like in 1945 versus 2015.  With 10-60 assignments, etc. it would be an interesting thread.

 

[fdny1075k]

The incident went to 4 Alarms in 1945. Most likely Box 715.

A 4th Alarm Assignment back in 1945 would probably look something like this:

Engine's 1-26-65-16-19-34-21-14-3-2-54-8-5-72-23-18
Ladder's 24-7-21-12-4
Battalion's 7-9-6-8
Division 3
Squad 21 (WWII manpower Squad)
Rescue 1

Possibly a Water Tower, additional chiefs, and additional special equipment as well.

Today, the running order would probably be fairly similar, albeit several closed companies and with the addition of special units, as well as additional companies either special-called or on a 10-60.

 

[CVILLE7111]

Thank you so much!  My father (Captain, 117 Truck retired) took the subway into Manhattan from Queens and buffed that job as a teenager.

 

[wfd444]

4 alarms....
1 ladder per additional alarm above the first....

 

[68jk09]

10-75 when you figured the assignment above did you just go by closest Units ? ...there  is a possibility that some Units listed MAY have been involved in relocations to other Units...just a thought.

 

[wfd444]

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=empire+state+building+fire+1945

 

[fdny1075k]

Thank you so much!  My father (Captain, 117 Truck retired) took the subway into Manhattan from Queens and buffed that job as a teenager.

No problem, C'VILLE 7111.

4 alarms....
1 ladder per additional alarm above the first....

Thanks wfd444.

10-75 when you figured the assignment above did you just go by closest Units ? ...there  is a possibility that some Units listed MAY have been involved in relocations to other Units...just a thought.

Yes Chief, to get the assignment above I went by the closest companies based on a 1945 unit location chart. And good point, the rundown I posted was just my best educated guess, assuming the units listed weren't on other runs at the time or on relocation.

 

[fdny1075k]

The locations of companies that may have responded back in 1945.

Engine 1 - 165 W. 29th St.
Engine 2 - 530 W. 43rd St.
Engine 3 - 417 W. 17th St.
Engine 5 - 340 E. 14th St.
Engine 8, Ladder 2, Battalion 8 - 165 E. 51st St.
Engine 14 - 14 E. 18th St.
Engine 16 - 223 E. 25th St.
Engine 18 - 132 W. 10th St.
Engine 19 - 355 W. 25th St.
Engine 21 - 238 E. 40th St.
Engine 23 - 215 W. 58th St.
Engine 26 - 220 W. 37th St.
Engine 34, Ladder 21 - 440 W. 38th St.
Engine 54 - 304 W. 47th St.
Engine 65 - 33 W. 43rd St.
Engine 72 - 22 E. 12th St.
Ladder 3, Battalion 6, Water Tower 2 - 108 E. 13th St.
Ladder 4 - 788 8th Ave.
Ladder 7 - 217 E. 28th St.
Ladder 12, Battalion 7 - 243 W. 20th St.
Ladder 24, Division 3, Squad 21, Water Tower 3, Searchlight 1 - 115 W. 33rd St.
Battalion 9 - 248 W. 48th St.
Rescue 1 - 278 Spring St.

On a side note, all engine companies listed, except Engine's 8, 19, 34, 54, and 72, had separate hose wagons.

http://nycfire.net/forums/index.php/topic,26459.msg88695.html#msg88695

 

[wfd444]

There was 40 years ago a paper in the NY Public Library [type-written] that stated the response and described the incident. As a young man I deliberately looked that up to satisfy my curiosity regarding this famous fire.

 

[fdny1075k]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Empire_State_Building_crash

http://ufalocal94.org/cms/contents/view/13487

 

[firebuffkevin]

Great information.  Just a little personal note,  when EFD274 and I were growing up in Flushing Broadway,  our next door neighbor was a retired NYPD Emergency Service PO.  He worked the job, and recovered a crescent wrench on the ground from the B25.    He showed it to us young elementary school kids.  He was a great guy, RIP  I believe his Dad was an NYPD Emergency Services Captain.

 

[memory master]

An excellent read regarding this is...."The Sky Is Falling" by Arthur Weingarten. ISBN#0-448-14411-5. Written in 1977, a 249 page story of the B-25's background, crew and the unfortunate crash. This hardcover book also has photos of the plane, crew, crash site and firefighting. I believe it is on Amazon.  I have no interest in the book, except for enjoying it. I definitely recommend it.

 

[firephish]

I would like to play this game and give the fictitious "2015 Rundown".

0940 - E-1 - (Verbal) - Transmit a 10-60 for an airplane into the Empire State Building.
10-60 Assignment:
E-1, 26, 65, 16, 21
L-24, 12, 21, 4 FAST
B-7, 9, 6 Safety, 8 RUL, 2 Staging
D-1
RB, SB, FC, Tac. 1
RAC-1
Rescue Task Force #1 - R-1, S-18, TL-7 SOC Support, L-25 w/ Rescue Collapse 1
Rescue Task Force #2 - R-4, S-288, TL-1 SOC Support, L-116 w/ Rescue Collapse 4
SOC Logistics, SOC COmpressor
HM-1, HMB, E-44 Haz Tech
E-7 Communications

0941 - Bn. 7 - Transmit a 3rd Alarm and make it a 10-76.
2nd Alarm w/ 10-76:
E-3 CFRD, 14 Lobby, 34, 54, 8, 5
L-3, 2, 9, 5
B-4 Sector Group Supervisor
E-9 w/ Sat. 1
E-39 w/ High Rise 2
MSU

3rd Alarm:
E-23, 33, 24, 28
L-16, 20
B-10 2nd Sector Group Supervisor,  33 Air Recon

0944 - Div. 1 - Transmit a 5th Alarm.  Have all units go to staging.
4th Alarm:
E-40, 55, 15, 74
L-11, 35

5th Alarm:
E-258, 259, 260, 325
L-115, 128

0951 - Car 4 - Transmit a 10-60 code 2.
E-10 act. 1, 221 act. 65, 80 act. 54, 230 act. 14, 58 act. 8
L-108 act. 24, 15 act. 12, 30 act. 4
B-1, 49 Planning Chief
D-3
E-207 w/ Sat. 6
E-233 w/ MCC-1
E-262 w/ IMT Planning Vehicle
E-274 Haz Tech
SOC Dewatering

1012 - FC per Car 4 - Requesting an additional Rescue Task Force, 4 additional Trucks, and 4 additional chiefs.
Rescue Task Force #3 - R-2, S-1, TL-146 SOC Support, L-132 w/ Rescue Collapse 2
L-17, 154, 102, 118
B-16, 26, 52, 31

There would obviously be many more relief companies, but I will stop at that.

 

[CVILLE7111]

Well done, thanks FP!

 

[firephish]

I found this podcast to be interesting:

http://www.radiodiaries.org/the-plane-that-flew-into-the-empire-state-building/

 

[fdhistorian]

There was 40 years ago a paper in the NY Public Library [type-written] that stated the response and described the incident. As a young man I deliberately looked that up to satisfy my curiosity regarding this famous fire.

You can probably find the response rundown in a back issue of Fire & Water (Fire Engineering) magazine.  There are still many complete collections around.

 

[FDNY793727]

There was 40 years ago a paper in the NY Public Library [type-written] that stated the response and described the incident. As a young man I deliberately looked that up to satisfy my curiosity regarding this famous fire.

I was actually able to find the book at the library. I'm working on getting the whole thing up on the website but for now, here's the rundown for units that went to both the Empire State Building and the fire at 10 West 33rd St. The rundown is listed as follows:

First Alarm (09:52):
Engines: 1, 14, 16
Hook and Ladders: 24, 7
Battalion 7
Division 3

Second Alarm (09:55):
Engines: 26, 65, 72, 19, 21, 34
Hook and Ladder 21
Battalion 6
Fire Service Supervising Squad 1
Rescue Company 1
Water Tower 3

Third Alarm (09:59):
Engines: 5, 18, 54, 8, 3
Hook and Ladder 12
Battalion 8
Fuel Wagon Number 1
Department Ambulance Number 1

Fourth Alarm (10:00):
Engines: 2, 33, 25, 28, 13, 23
Hook and Ladder 3
Battalion 3

 

[manhattan]

Shouldn't 3 Engine be in there someplace?

 

[FDNY793727]

Shouldn't 3 Engine be in there someplace?

Yep they were. Thanks for that, they were listed later, not with the rest of the companies for some reason.

 

[guitarman314]

Shouldn't 3 Engine be in there someplace?

Yep they were. Thanks for that, they were listed later, not with the rest of the companies for some reason.

  The reason Engine 3 responded later is that they used to be located further away than they are today. On that day they were coming from at 417 W. 17th St. off of 10th Ave.